Summary In this conversation, Amas Tenumah and Martha discuss the evolving landscape of customer feedback, particularly focusing on surveys and the Net Promoter Score (NPS). They explore the effectiveness of consumer surveys, the original intent behind NPS, and how it has become a tool for benchmarking rather than genuine customer insight. Martha emphasizes the importance of understanding customer behavior and the need for companies to gather meaningful feedback rather than just chasing scores. They also touch on the devaluation of expertise in decision-making and the consequences of poor feedback practices. The conversation concludes with strategies for companies to improve their feedback gathering processes and ensure they are truly listening to their customers. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Anticipation 01:28 Consumer Surveys: Worth the Effort? 07:03 The Evolution of Surveys and NPS 13:05 The Purpose of NPS: A Shift in Focus 17:26 Martha's Journey in Customer Experience Research 21:37 The Evolution of NPS and Its Challenges 28:19 Rethinking Customer Feedback Mechanisms 31:05 The Importance of Genuine Consumer Feedback 33:59 Valuing Expertise in Customer Experience 39:00 Strategies for Effective Feedback Gathering 44:40 Amas outro.mp4 Martha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marthabrooke/

In this episode, Amas sits down with Vaishali to discuss the evolving world of Customer Experience (CX). The conversation kicks off with Amas asking Vaishali to define CX and explain its importance in a business landscape where companies are increasingly cutting back on their CX departments. Vaishali describes CX as a "fuss-free" process that focuses on creating positive emotional experiences for customers, emphasizing that a good CX strategy is essential for maintaining customer loyalty and satisfaction. The discussion then moves to the overlap between CX, marketing, and customer service. Vaishali uses a creative analogy, likening CX to the ingredients of a delicious burger, where each component (marketing, customer service, and CX design) plays a crucial role in creating a satisfying experience. Amas appreciates this unique perspective and prompts Vaishali to share real-world examples from her experience in the manufacturing industry, where understanding customer personas and journeys led to more effective website design and user experiences. Amas and Vaishali also touch on the challenges facing CX professionals today, such as the overuse and misunderstanding of the term "CX" and the overwhelming amount of technology and opinions in the field. Vaishali expresses optimism about the growing awareness and investment in CX but also acknowledges the challenges of differentiating valuable insights from the noise. The episode wraps up with a discussion about the future of CX, the role of AI as a "co-pilot" in enhancing customer experiences, and the importance of maintaining balance across all business functions. Both Amas and Vaishali share personal anecdotes and thoughts on life, leaving listeners with reflective quotes and a reminder to make the most of every moment. Vaishali ends the show on a poignant note, urging listeners to find happiness in what they do, as life is unpredictable and precious. Amas thanks Vaishali for joining and invites listeners to connect with her on LinkedIn. **Key Takeaways:** - CX is about creating seamless, emotion-driven customer experiences. - Effective CX requires collaboration between marketing, customer service, and CX teams. - The future of CX is promising, with growing awareness and technological advancements. - AI is seen as a supportive tool in enhancing customer experiences, not a replacement for human empathy and creativity. - Balance and a holistic approach to CX, customer service, and marketing are crucial for business success. Vaishali: https://ae.linkedin.com/in/vaishalidialani

The podcast episode is a discussion between Amas and Jim, focusing on the future of customer service in the era of AI, particularly in call centers. Jim, who is associated with RingCentral, emphasizes that despite the growing integration of AI, human-based customer service is far from dead. AI, he argues, should be seen as a tool to augment and support human agents rather than replace them.

They discuss the role of AI in automating mundane tasks, such as call dispositioning and summarizing conversations, which can reduce agent burnout and allow them to focus on more complex and empathetic customer interactions. Jim highlights that while AI can handle straightforward tasks and improve efficiency, it lacks the human touch necessary for creating connections with customers.

Amas and Jim also talk about the importance of ensuring that AI and other technologies scale effectively, especially for smaller companies that want to offer personalized service but may lack extensive resources. They caution against over-reliance on automation, pointing out that it can lead to frustration for customers when different systems don’t communicate effectively, leading to repeated explanations and escalating emotions.

Finally, the conversation touches on how technology can improve the job quality for contact center employees by eliminating repetitive tasks and allowing them to focus on more engaging aspects of their work. Jim shares his vision for a future where AI enhances customer service without sacrificing the human element, ultimately creating a better experience for both customers and employees.

Jim Payne Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-payne-2349b625

Here's a summary of the podcast: Title: It is time to end NPS w Rob Host: Amas Guest: Rob Key Topics Discussed: 1. The state of customer service and declining ACSI ratings 2. Problems with current customer feedback methods, particularly surveys 3. Issues with star ratings and their loss of meaning 4. The evolution of speech analytics in customer service 5. Challenges with implementing AI in customer service, focusing on chatbots 6. Better uses of AI for improving internal processes and agent experiences 7. The importance of focusing on internal customer service roles 8. Strategies for reducing contact center headcount by improving overall customer experience 9. Personal anecdotes about impactful purchases and brand experiences 10. The dual nature of AI as both a source of optimism and pessimism in the industry Main Takeaways: - Current survey methods are problematic and often ineffective for truly understanding customer experiences - AI has potential to greatly improve internal processes in customer service, but is often misused in customer-facing applications - Improving overall customer experience is more effective for reducing contact center needs than implementing deflection tactics - The future of AI in customer service presents both opportunities and challenges The conversation provides insights into the current state of customer service, critiques common practices, and discusses potential improvements and future trends in the industry.

Rob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-robert-dwyer/

In this episode, Amas welcomes Brian back to the show for yet another insightful discussion, jokingly suggesting they need a loyalty punch card for frequent guests. The conversation dives deep into the challenges and solutions in the contact center industry, particularly focusing on improving the employee experience. Brian explains that the key to enhancing this experience is to "get out of the way" and let humans be humans. This approach, called the "Meaningful Work Methodology," emphasizes reducing "grind"—the negative aspects of work caused primarily by management—and fostering meaningful work.

The methodology measures the intent to quit and highlights the impact of grind and meaningful work on employee turnover and customer satisfaction. The discussion reveals that reducing employee turnover by 25-50% and increasing customer satisfaction scores by 10-25% are achievable outcomes when this methodology is applied. However, the challenge lies in convincing executives to embrace this change, as they often prioritize cost-cutting and efficiency over employee and customer well-being.

The episode also touches on the broader issue of leadership in the contact center industry. Brian and Amas critique the industry's historical focus on cost-cutting and efficiency, often at the expense of genuine human interaction and customer satisfaction. They discuss the influence of the 2010 Harvard Business Review article "Stop Trying to Delight Your Customers," which shifted the industry's focus towards minimizing customer effort and away from creating meaningful, delightful experiences.

Brian introduces the "Four Horsemen of Leadership" concept, describing common pitfalls in leadership that hinder meaningful change. These include the Leadership Paradox (prioritizing profitability over people), the Leadership Conundrum (leaders often can't fix problems they've caused), the Leadership Challenge (lack of effective leadership in caring for employees and customers), and the Leadership Lemmings (executives following industry trends without question).

In summary, the episode offers a critical look at the contact center industry, highlighting the need for a shift in focus from efficiency and cost-cutting to meaningful work and human interaction. Brian and Amas stress that while the solution is simple, implementing it requires overcoming significant resistance from leadership entrenched in outdated practices. The episode ends on an optimistic note, suggesting that real change is possible if leaders are willing to embrace a more human-centric approach.

Resources mentioned: https://850c4f28-89ab-434f-9763-7c9c9834c939.filesusr.com/ugd/aa75d1_38b2598d44204d9cbaa1760586901b1d.pdf?index=true

In this episode, Amas and Brian dive into a compelling discussion about the state of the contact center industry and how it impacts both employees and customers. They reflect on their previous episodes' popularity, emphasizing the resonance of this topic with their audience. Amas expresses gratitude to listeners and encourages feedback via LinkedIn or email.

The conversation highlights the persistent challenges faced by contact center agents, likening their experience to a steak restaurant serving A1 sauce – a quick fix for a deeper problem. Brian elaborates on a transformative approach that goes beyond superficial solutions like pizza parties, advocating for addressing the actual grind of the job.

Brian explains that company profitability is driven by customer behavior, which is emotionally driven and influenced significantly by human interactions. Therefore, the meaningful work of agents is crucial. The core issue, he argues, is how agents are managed. Traditional punitive management styles contribute to employee dissatisfaction and high turnover rates.

Amas and Brian discuss the negative impact of current management practices on profitability and the overall customer experience. They explore a shift in mindset from managing to developing agents, fostering genuine human connections and reducing the grind. Brian shares insights from his research and real-world examples, illustrating how meaningful work methodologies can dramatically improve employee engagement and customer satisfaction.

The episode concludes with a call to action for organizations to embrace this human-centric approach, despite the resistance and challenges inherent in changing established practices. Amas and Brian emphasize the potential for revolutionary improvements in the contact center industry by allowing humans to be humans and fostering genuine interactions.

Resources:

Brian on linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briankearney-meaningfulwork/

Referenced in the episode: https://www.5thtalent.com/_files/ugd/aa75d1_82aa602649214861b72bbb3256ea5a69.pdf

### Podcast Episode Notes: "Enhancing Contact Center Work"

**Host:** Amas
**Guest:** Brian

**Episode Summary:**
In this insightful follow-up episode, Amas reconnects with Brian to delve deeper into the challenges faced by contact center agents and explore the profound impact of meaningful work on employee satisfaction and performance. Listeners are encouraged to listen to the previous episode for context on the ongoing discussion.

**Key Points Discussed:**

1. **The Real Problem with Contact Center Jobs:**
- Brian argues that the dissatisfaction among contact center agents isn't due to insufficient perks like pizza parties or salaries but rather the nature of the job itself.

2. **Widespread Industry Issues:**
- Billions have been invested in improving conditions through career and pay initiatives, yet these efforts have often missed the mark on addressing the core issues.

3. **The Three Types of Meaning in Work:**
- **Meaning from Work:** Benefits and compensation that extend outside of work hours.
- **Meaning at Work:** The company culture, social events, and mission.
- **Meaningful Work:** The intrinsic value and impact of the work performed, which is crucial for reducing turnover and boosting performance.

4. **Misguided Management Focus:**
- Management often resorts to quick fixes like increasing budgets for perks rather than addressing deeper systemic issues in job design and corporate culture.

5. **The Power of Meaningful Work:**
- Employees derive the most satisfaction from moments where they can significantly impact customers' lives, underscoring the importance of job design that empowers agents.

6. **Grind and Misalignment:**
- The term "grind" is used to describe the friction that occurs when company policies and customer needs do not align, placing agents in a challenging position that often leads to dissatisfaction.

7. **Management's Role in Meaningful Work:**
- The approach to management is pivotal; shifting focus from process-oriented to people-oriented strategies can enhance both employee satisfaction and customer service.

8. **Future Directions:**
- The conversation highlights the need for a paradigm shift in how contact centers are managed, emphasizing the importance of human-centric policies and practices.

**Closing Remarks:**
- Amas and Brian touch on personal anecdotes, sharing insights into purchases under $50 that have significantly impacted their lives, adding a personal touch to the discussion.

**Next Steps:**
- The next episode promises to explore actionable strategies ("the how") for creating meaningful work environments in contact centers, aiming to reduce grind and improve both employee and customer satisfaction.

**Listener Action Items:**
- Check out the previous episode for background on the discussion.
- Reflect on the nature of meaningful work within one's own job and consider ways to enhance it.

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**Stay tuned for the next episode where Brian will delve into practical steps for fostering meaningful work in contact centers.**

### Podcast Summary: "Amas Talks - How the Call Center Agent Job Got So Bad"

#### Introduction
- **Host:** Amas
- **Guest:** Brian, an industry expert focused on improving the lives of call center agents and managers.

#### Key Points Discussed:

1. **Current State of Call Center Jobs:**
- Call center jobs have become increasingly difficult and less rewarding.
- The guest's report on the industry paints a grim picture, noting poor job satisfaction among agents.

2. **Historical Context:**
- Customer service has been evolving since ancient times, with the first recorded complaint dating back to 1750 BC.
- The industrial revolution led to the industrialization of various sectors, including customer service, which has negatively impacted the human aspect of the job.

3. **Industrialization of Customer Service:**
- The shift towards industrialization has prioritized efficiency, production, and profit over meaningful human interactions.
- This has resulted in dehumanized interactions, with agents treated as cogs in a machine rather than individuals providing valuable service.

4. **Impact on Agents and Customers:**
- Agents are often forced to choose between adhering to company policies and providing genuine customer service.
- This has led to high turnover rates and disengagement among agents, negatively impacting customer experiences.

5. **Customer and Agent Desires:**
- Both customers and agents prefer human interactions that feel personal and genuine.
- Customers appreciate when agents work collaboratively with them to resolve issues, while agents seek meaningful work where they can truly help customers.

6. **Challenges with Current Solutions:**
- Despite advancements in technology and tools, many agents still struggle with inadequate systems and high stress levels.
- Efforts to improve agent satisfaction, such as better tools and perks like pizza parties, have not significantly improved job satisfaction or performance.

7. **Future Outlook:**
- The guest expresses optimism about the potential for improvement in the industry.
- Emphasizes the need for a shift in focus towards enabling agents to be themselves and provide genuine service, which benefits both agents and customers.

#### Conclusion:
- Amas and Brian discuss the importance of humanizing customer service jobs and look forward to further conversations on how to solve the industry's challenges.
- The episode ends with a teaser for future discussions and a call to listeners to like, subscribe, and share the podcast.

### Closing:
- **Amas:** Encourages listeners to stay tuned for more insightful discussions on improving customer service and agent experiences.
- **Brian:** Expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share his insights and looks forward to continuing the conversation.