In episode 246, we explore the concept of interdependence in the context of recovery from betrayal trauma and porn addiction. Interdependence, often mentioned but not always fully understood, is a critical aspect of healing and moving forward in a relationship after the discovery of a partner’s addiction. Many betrayed spouses struggle with defining what interdependence looks and feels like, particularly as they navigate the complexities of their partner's ongoing recovery and behavior. Today, we’ll dive into what interdependence truly means and how it manifests in real-world scenarios, especially for those who have been deeply impacted by their spouse’s actions.

Our discussion centers around the journey of a betrayed spouse who has been married for over two decades and is actively working on her own recovery after discovering her husband’s sexual addiction. She shares her experience of wrestling with the pain of watching her husband’s behavior, such as scanning or getting captivated by other women, and how it feels intensely personal, even though she intellectually knows it’s not about her. This inner conflict highlights the struggle many face in separating their spouse’s actions from their self-worth, and how exhausting it can be to maintain a healthy mindset amidst these triggers.

We’ll also examine how interdependence can evolve over time, contrasting the early stages of recovery with later phases where individuals may experience greater emotional resilience and independence. The question is raised about whether, over time, triggers like a partner’s inappropriate behavior still impact those who are further along in their recovery. This conversation is not just about reframing mindsets but also about understanding how personal growth and healing can empower individuals, regardless of the outcome of their marriage. Join us as we unpack these challenging dynamics and provide insight into what interdependence can look like in healthy, recovering relationships.

• What IS “interdependence”/COLLABORATION? What does it “look like”?
• What does “independence/the Authentic Self” in recovery and healing look like for both partners?
  • For the recovering porn addict—
  • For the partner healing from betrayal trauma—
• What kinds of things can disrupt one’s independent recovery and healing paths?
  • For the recovering porn addict—
  • For the healing partner—
• How do “independent/authentic” partners progressively move into a place of “interdependence”?
  • Each must have a clear understanding of what it means to “own my side of the street”—to step into my voice, my truth, my sovereignty and my EMPOWERMENT and be WORKING IT!
  • Be VERY mindful of the EARLY signs you are leaving the realm of sovereign independence and entering back into sacrificing one’s Authentic Self and boundaries around that self.
• What are the PROGRESSIVE steps to traveling the path of interdependence and coupleship collaboration?
  • First and foremost it’s all about “What you bring with you” to the coupleship interaction! Self-care; outside support system; shame resilience work . . .
  • MUST agree to interrupt long-standing, emotionally intense/reactive relationships patterns! Establish CLEAR communication boundaries and TAKE A BREAK every time one or both go outside those boundaries (do NOT weaponize this!)
  • Don’t allow “reactive situations” to always be where you try to “work on healthy communication/collaboration.” Intentionally plan and practice hard topics—Journaling & Higher Power; Outside Support Systems; Couples Daily Check-ins: weekly Partnership meetings.
  • This is a process NOT a destination–be patient; give grace; don’t give up.

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In Episode 245, Mark & Steve respond to an all–too–common, legitimate struggle faced by the betrayed partners of sex/porn addicts. Here's a submission from a partner—

My husband is starting a new position within his company where he will be working very closely with this woman. She is highly attractive, and the only female in the male dominated company they work in. He has admitted a few times that “_______” is beautiful, smart and is going to go far in the company. While I have never been concerned he’s going to cheat on me, with her or anyone else, I have a lot of mixed feelings about them working so close together. I’m scared that he is fantasizing about her, masturbating to her and lying to me about it. Like he has lied to me about everything else so far. I asked him bluntly and he laughed at me and told me that “he only has eyes for me—obviously, we’re married!” He has some pretty obvious “tells” when he is lying and I’m almost certain he is in this case. How can I, as the spouse, learn to (I guess) just be okay with it and trust that work relationships are just that, work relationships?

• A History of Lying and Betrayal trauma trigger MANY symptoms for a partner that are understandable, legitimate and CRAZY HARD!
  • “Like he has lied to me about everything else so far”
    • Hypervigilance, seeking for guarantees, feelings of competition/comparison, doubting her intuition/gut, exhausted by his gaslighting, etc
  • She has every right to be skeptical, guarded and suspicious.
  • “How can I, as the spouse, learn to (I guess) just be okay with it and trust that work relationships are just that, work relationships?”
    • You shouldn’t.
• These concerns need to be TRANSPARENTLY EXPLORED, THOUGHT OUT, and SHARED with him.
  • In whatever way/medium is safe for her.
  • He needs to access resources and/or skills (as needed) to be able to HEAR, PROCESS, CONNECT WITH, and VALIDATE her concerns in a vulnerable way.
    • Connecting with/utilizing a support group, therapist, sponsor, daily renewal partner, journaling, etc
    • This happens ideally not just in the moment (trigger management), but also is cultivated in advance (self-care routines)
• Situations like this point towards the “bigger issues” within the relationship
  • Lack of trust
  • Lack of safety
  • (potentially) lack of dialogue
  • Lack of collaboration
• For the partner, FINDING YOUR AUTHENTIC VOICE is something to grow in terms of skillset and practice:
  • Discovering the authentic self
  • Setting boundaries
  • Setting and holding consequences to preserve safety and authenticity
  • How can you “know” what he’s doing or not doing?
• How to begin addressing this as a coupleship—
  • Get comfortable with the uncomfortable
  • Practice via daily check-in’s
  • Couples therapy
  • Programs like D2C

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.pbsepodcast.com/post/my-porn-addicted-partner-has-adhd-he-insists-i-must-manage-his-recovery-for-him-to-succeed-is-this

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at: Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at: Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 244, Mark & Steve address the betrayed partner of a porn/sex addict who submitted the following to PBSE—

As a partner of an addict, what can I do to help my partner feel more supported during his recovery, so that he may feel more comfortable telling me the truth??? Time and time again, I have caught him in lies or omissions and it’s eating away at the trust in our relationship. Most recently, we engaged in physical intimacy and I could tell IMMEDIATELY that he had been looking at porn that day. I can’t explain it- I just knew. I felt used, like my body was simply a means to an end for him, like a masturbation device. So I asked my partner if he’d been hiding anything from me, and he came clean that he did in fact have some slips over the weekend. I have since made it clear, respectfully, that I do not wish to engage in intercourse while information about his sexual proclivities is being withheld from me. The main issue here is that during previous conversations, he has agreed to PROACTIVELY come to me when these slips happen so that I don’t have to play detective anymore… but he has never followed through with that agreement, and he continues to wait around until I ask the perfect question. After this incident, my partner told me that he doesn’t feel like he can come to me because I get really quiet when he talks about his slips and therefore I do not make him feel supported enough. If you have any suggestions or words of wisdom to share, I would greatly appreciate it so much.

For Her:

• Take the time to truly explore your feelings, wants, and needs, and then come up with boundaries and attached consequences for each.
• Vulnerably share these with your partner, in whatever way is safest.
• Ensure that you are practicing healthy communication skills:
  • When feeling anger or anger-related feelings (which are absolutely legitimate), be sure to express this in a way that also communicates the vulnerable primary emotions under the anger.
  • Avoid toxicity in your dialogue (name-calling, sarcasm, mind-reading, etc.) and stay true to what is "authentic" to you.
  • As safety allows, be very proactive in your expression of needs, as well as your thoughts and feelings. Hold FIRM boundaries and their accompanying consequences/outcomes.
  • Recognize that you can’t “make” anyone continue to feel or not feel anything. They choose which feelings to focus on and remain in.
  • SURRENDER THE REST. IT'S ON HIM.

For Him: An addict in sincere recovery will be making progressive efforts to:

• Practice true account-ability
  • At a BASELINE, this means telling the WHOLE truth at ALL costs!
  • Doing the hard work to not just share lapses/relapses, but to discover:
    • What led up to the lapse/relapse
    • What broke down on his end
    • What specific changes will he make in future encounters with triggers
• Sit in “Uncomfortable Places”
  • Why are you responding the way you do your partner's reactions?
  • How are you response-able for your actions & your responses?
  • In what ways are you growing in your capacity to practice uncomfortable ownership and account-ability?
• As Addicts, WE CAUSED THIS. We may not be responsible for all of the circumstances that got us here in totality, but we ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE responsible for how we handle, show up for, and address "today."

For a full transcript of this podcast in article format, go to: https://www.pbsepodcast.com/post/is-it-my-responsibility-to-make-my-porn-addicted-partner-feel-comfortable-so-he-will-consistently-te