In his role as founding director of the Haredi Institute of Public Affairs (HIPA), Eli Paley is well positioned to evaluate the chareidi relationship to Israeli society.

As Iyun founder Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer has written, the most vital factor in the entire chareidi conscription conundrum may just be whether, or to what degree, chareidim see themselves as “Israeli.”

In this wide-ranging conversation about chareidi identity, we tackle these questions and aim to decipher the trends at play in current society.

One of the under-appreciated concerns - sometimes articulated, often unconscious - held by Chareidim with respect to army service, is the concept of “chain of command.” For a young man whose guiding force in life is G-d, the Torah and rabbinnic authority, submission to faceless officers high up the IDF’s ladder can seem sacrilegious.

This is compounded when considering possible halachic matters of life and death: who is authorizing actions that place soldiers’, and others’, lives at risk? Are these decisions guided by Torah principles in any sense?

Rabbi Dr. Shlomo Brody, founder of Ematai, and author of the recently-released instant-classic Ethics of our Fighters, joins us to explore these vexing issues.

“Daas Torah.” These two words are among the most loaded in modern hashkafic - and political - discourse. But what, in fact, does it mean, and how might it apply to the current crisis over chareidi conscription, whatever one’s view of the matter?

It would be presumptuous to attempt to treat the topic of Daas Torah comprehensively on one episode of a conversational podcast. One is referred to Lawrence Kaplan’s classic article on the matter, and many other sources, for this more holistic treatment.

Instead, we evaluate how this contention is marshaled within the current discourse around Chareidim and army service. Rabbinic opposition often is cited as the most substantial argument against participation. This impulse is deeply embedded in the charedi psyche, and one can argue that this is with good reason: after all, on matters of legitimate communal guidance, who is more qualified to issue directives that will preserve societal commitments and observance?

On the other hand, in today’s landscape, many people seek more transparency and wish to debate the issues on their merits, without recoursing to an “argument from authority.” Furthermore, students of even recent history wonder when this issue became so monolithic, and extreme.

This fascinating article explores charedii military participation during the War of Independence. Telz Rosh Yeshiva Rav Elya Meir Bloch attended a communal Yom Ha’atmaut celebration in Cleveland in 1954.

And consider these statements, cited in a Tzarich Iyun article by Iyun founder Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer, made decades ago by the greatest sages of the previous generation:

Rav Elazar Shach (1980 letter on behalf of Vaad Hayeshivos): “The right given to yeshiva students of deferring their enlistment into the army, is contingent on his study being his sole occupation. He must not be engaged in any material pursuits, whether during yeshiva hours or outside of them.”

Rav Yechezkel Abramski: “Anyone who “abuses this right, is considered a rodef (a “pursuer”) of those yeshiva students who study Torah diligently.” And he instructed Roshei Yeshiva “to conduct a strict vetting of students and remove from their ranks any student whose Torah is not his sole occupation.”

The Steipler (in Orchos Rabbeinu): “Those who are registered in yeshiva, allowing them exemption from the army even as they engage in gainful employment, are absolute rodfim.” To be sure, none of these quotes imply a pro-army stance for full-time yeshiva students; quite the opposite.

Still, they do reflect a willingness - even responsibility - to reserve this exemption for those most deserving. (And of course, while many opponents would still decry such privilege for full-time learners, a stance that demands army service for all non-learners would be welcomed in our moment by most Israelis, and reflect a far more liberal position than currently espoused.)

So…in a society that seems to have grown only more traditional, why has the chareidi community grown more resolute and isolated? Why has the Daas Torah changed? Or is all not as it appears?

We will attempt to unravel some of these questions on this episode.

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Link to Outro reference: