Meet Judge Wesley Tibbals

May it please the court! We’ve got a special guest today who knows a thing or two about the workings of divorce court, and that’s because he’s a judge! That’s right, we figured it was about time that we had an actual judge on to make sure we’re not just making stuff up.
Judge Wesley Tibbals talks with Pete and Seth today about life behind the bench in divorce court. There’s a lot to talk about and Pete and Seth have a lot of questions. Why does it take so long for your divorce to work its way through the system? What’s a judge looking for from the litigants in front of them? What should you look for when searching for a good, experienced lawyer? And what should you expect from the court system?
It’s a wide-ranging conversation that will undoubtedly help anyone decide if they should go in front of a judge for their divorce and if so, how to better handle it. Enjoy!

About Judge Tibbals

Judge Tibbals has served his community for seven years as a Circuit Court Judge with fairness and respect to all. Judge Tibbals, a fourth-generation Floridian, was appointed Circuit Court Judge in the Thirteenth Judicial Circuit in his jurisdiction in 2015. He has presided over family and civil dockets, as well as criminal, delinquency, and dependency court matters in first appearance court. In 2017, and again in 2018, Judge Tibbals received temporary appointments to serve as an Associate Judge on the Second District Court of Appeal. On July 30, 2017, the Chief Judge appointed Judge Tibbals as the Associate Administrative Judge in the Family Law Division and he remains in this position.
In 2018, Judge Tibbals was recognized for his efforts to promote alternative dispute resolution methods in family law cases by Next Generation Divorce, in which he is an honorary member. In 2019, the Hillsborough County Bar Association Family Law Section recognized Judge Tibbals with an award for his extraordinary contributions to family law. Judge Tibbals is a faculty member of the Conference of Circuit Judges, where he is able to teach continuing judicial education courses to judges throughout Florida. In March 2020, Judge Tibbals was one of the first judges in the state to begin using the Zoom videoconferencing platform to allow family law litigants in Hillsborough County access to the courts to resolve their family law cases.
Prior to his appointment, Judge Tibbals was a trial attorney at Akerman LLP for over 15 years representing Fortune 500 companies, small businesses, and individuals. He began his career as an associate with Thompson, Sizemore, Gonzalez & Hearing, P.A., representing private and public sector employers with an emphasis on federal court litigation. He has broad experience in federal and state courts handling business disputes, contractual claims, products liability and labor and employment issues. He was recognized by Super Lawyers Magazine and Florida Trend for his expertise in business litigation.
During his time in private practice, Judge Tibbals committed hundreds of hours to pro bono service as an attorney ad litem in juvenile delinquency court, assisting children in navigating court proceedings when a parent or guardian was unavailable. In 2014, he was recognized by the Hillsborough County Bar Association for his pro bono legal service with the Jimmy Kynes Award, the highest award for pro bono service in Hillsborough County. Judge Tibbals earned his bachelor of arts and juris doctor degrees from the University of Florida, and is a proud Florida Gator.

Links & Notes

• Judge Tibbals’ Website
• Judge Tibbals on Instagram and Facebook
• Schedule a consult with Seth
• Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!

• 00:00 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 00:26 - Meet Judge Tibbals
• 02:50 - Divorce From the Judge's Perspective
• 05:06 - It's Never One-Sided
• 06:50 - Staying Grounded
• 08:26 - Hammers, Not Scalpels
• 10:09 - The Battlefield
• 11:43 - Reading the Signals
• 17:22 - Sponsor: Soberlink
• 19:46 - Judicial Stagefright
• 24:53 - Humanity and Control
• 26:15 - Court Organization
• 28:47 - The Time It Takes
• 39:14 - Being Real
• 41:13 - Handling Questionable Lawyers
• 45:24 - How to Determine Lawyer's Skills
• 47:27 - More About Judges in the System
• 50:05 - Election Season
• 58:06 - Socials and Wrap-Up

Meet Neale Godfrey

When a relationship ends and you haven’t been the one taking care of the finances, figuring out how to move forward can be paralyzing. Luckily, it’s a learned skill and on today’s episode, Pete and Seth are joined by New York Times #1 Best-Selling author Neale Godfrey to discuss finances, kids, gray divorce and more.

It’s important to understand your own finances and to learn how to handle them moving forward. It’s also incredibly important to keep your kids in the loop so they’re aware of how finances are going to affect them. (They are very id-focused beings, particularly the younger ones, after all.)

It’s important to never confuse your net-worth with your self-worth. You’re not the money you earn, or don’t earn. Money is about choice. Live within your means. And what about having your kids work? These are lessons for you to learn and to teach your children.

We also touch on gray divorce and why the numbers are growing for couples divorcing after the age of 50.

Our conversation ranges the gamut in today’s episode, but there are lots of juicy tidbits to help you learn how to be more financially healthy after your divorce, regardless of how old you are or if you have kids when it happens.

More About Neale

Neale Godfrey is the financial voice for women and multi-generations as well as a world-renowned speaker and author, who has inspired millions through her work. She motivates, trains, educates, and frankly, entertains by delivering her core message: Empower yourself to take control of your financial life. Neale brings an important perspective on connecting the financial dots for families, which she delivers to thousands of corporate audiences and financial advisors.

As the creator for the topic of “kids and money” and trailblazer for financial literacy, Neale Godfrey has worked tirelessly over the last 35 years to connect the family around the topic of money.

Neale began her journey in 1972 as one of the first female executives at The Chase Manhattan Bank (the world’s largest bank at the time). She later went on to become President of The First Women’s Bank and founder of The First Children’s Bank in FAO Schwarz. Neale was also involved with the Institute for Youth Entrepreneurship in Harlem.

Neale is the New York Times #1 Best-Selling Author of Money Doesn’t Grow on Trees: A Parent’s Guide to Raising Financially Responsible Children and has authored a total of 28 books to empower kids and their parents to have a healthy relationship with money.

Neale has represented global companies as a National Spokesperson; including Microsoft, UPS, Lincoln Financial, Fidelity, AIG, Nuveen, Aetna, Coca-Cola, among others. She has also appeared as a financial expert on programs such as; The Oprah Winfrey Show, Good Morning America, and The Today Show, on major news networks such as; CNN, CNBC, and FOX Business, and starred in the PBS Special, “Your Money, Your Children, Your Life."

Neale is a popular contributor for Kiplinger, a former contributor to Forbes.com and Huffington Post, and a former Nationally Syndicated Columnist for the Associated Press.

Neale has served on White House and Governor’s Task Forces, as well as on the Board of Directors of UNICEF, UNWomen, Young President’s Organization — YPO (Member since 1987), The NY Board of Trade, and Morris County Chamber of Commerce.

Links & Notes

• Neale Godfrey’s Website
• Neale on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook
• Schedule a consult with Seth
• Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!

• 00:00 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 00:26 - Meet Neale Godfrey
• 01:45 - Financial Struggle Post-Divorce for Women
• 04:57 - A Learned Skill
• 06:10 - A Gendered Conversation
• 08:32 - Net-Worth vs. Self-Worth
• 13:01 - It's a Business
• 13:55 - Hidden Assets
• 18:29 - Pre-Nups
• 27:16 - Sponsor: Soberlink
• 29:46 - Kids, Money, and Divorce
• 37:52 - Kids and Jobs
• 42:13 - Gray Divorce

“We owe it to them to ensure they’re not collateral damage due to this divorce.”

Meet Sarah Armstrong

Sarah works at Google but decided as a side gig to write her book “The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce: What to Think Through When Children Are Involved” largely because it gave her the opportunity to share what she’d learned during her own divorce with others. And that’s not to say her divorce was a cakewalk. It was hard. It provided challenges for her, her ex, and their daughter. But through it all, they maintained the belief that they had to do what was best for their daughter. Hence, the good divorce.

Seth and Pete talk to Sarah about the decision to make the divorce a good one and how it shaped everything from that point forward. They talk about what it means to ‘do what’s best for the children.’ They discuss logistics, scheduling conflicts, and soccer games. They also talk about the battles over things like first right of refusal.

It’s also important to think beyond the years your kids will be under your roofs. What about when they’re older? Are you working to build that relationship beyond 18? How should you act when they’re young? Should you consider counseling for your child?

It’s a wide ranging conversation that digs into a lot of topics that can help you as you work through your own divorce.

About Sarah

Sarah Armstrong, good divorce proponent and author of The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce, is vice president, global marketing operations, at Google and proud mom of Grace, who will be a sophomore in college in the fall of 2022. Sarah is a mentor to other women in business, and longtime volunteer at various nonprofit organizations, including Jack & Jill Late Stage Cancer Foundation, Georgetown Alumni Admissions Program and Trinity Table Soup Kitchen.

Prior to joining Google, Sarah was a partner at McKinsey & Co. and worked at The Coca-Cola Company in global marketing for twenty years, where she led Worldwide Agency Operations across 200 countries. Sarah started her career at Leo Burnett (Chicago) in Media. Sarah’s work has been recognized around the world, resulting in her being named one of Ad Age’s “Women to Watch” and included in Ad Age’s Book of Tens (“Top Ten Who Made Their Mark in 2009”).

Sarah was raised in Birmingham, Michigan with two younger brothers and happily married parents (for over fifty years and still going strong). She attended Georgetown University, as a scholarship athlete, earning a Bachelor of Science degree from the School of Business Administration with a major in marketing. She was a four-year starter on the Georgetown University Volleyball Team.

Sarah loves traveling the world and has been fortunate to travel to 55+ countries. She enjoys exploring new cities with Grace whenever possible. Sarah lives in San Francisco.

Links & Notes

• Sarah’s Website
• Find Sarah on LinkedIn or Facebook
• The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce: What to Think Through When Children Are Involved
• Schedule a consult with Seth
• Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!

• 00:00 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 00:26 - Meet Sarah Armstrong
• 01:18 - Advocating for Good Divorce
• 04:30 - Her Own Divorce
• 06:45 - Having a Good Divorce
• 12:56 - Minimizing the Gaps
• 17:35 - Sponsor: Soberlink
• 19:58 - Other Routines
• 24:35 - Kids Adapting to Change
• 29:21 - Making New Lives Work Apart
• 30:22 - Right of Refusal
• 31:45 - Showing Consolidarity
• 35:25 - Navigating as a Working Mom
• 38:22 - Universal Truths
• 39:44 - Introducing New Significant Others
• 42:39 - When They Struggle With Change
• 48:01 - Counseling
• 49:15 - Your Family of Choice
• 52:09 - Sarah's Book and Website

Meet Shannon Jenkins

Divorce is never easy, but when you’re trying to divorce a narcissistic sociopath, things are so much more complicated. Add in complications involving international moves and it’s quite a process. Shannon Jenkins had to deal with all of that and more when she made the decision to get out of her relationship with her now-ex. It was the most challenging part of her life, but she’s through it now and the better for it.

Pete and Seth have a wide-ranging conversation with Shannon about her decision to break free, what that meant for her and their child, and the process she went through. It was rarely easy, if ever. But she made it through and is now living a life full of confidence and strength. On top of that, she’s podcasting about her journey.

It’s a great conversation that looks at the challenges of dealing with a high conflict divorce and how to navigate those treacherous waters, as well as how to build your strength on the other side. Join us!

About Shannon

Shannon Jenkins is the host of self-development & spirituality podcast "Starting over with Shannon" with weekly shows which motivate and encourage listeners to do ‘the’ work of inner healing and conquer challenges they face in their lives in the name of greater joy, meaning, peace and purpose.

Inspiration for the podcast was born out of a challenging chapter of her own: separating from a high-conflict partner, years of legal proceedings and healing from the abuse within and after that relationship. In 2020 she was granted sole parental responsibility for their son by the Family Court of Western Australia and permission to relocate from Australia to Switzerland.

Prior to podcasting, Shannon was a humanities and social sciences teacher as well as a public speaking and debating instructor. She holds a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science, International Relations and Business Law from the University of Western Australia, with additional studies completed at King’s College London and Sciences Po, Paris.

Links & Notes

• Starting Over With Shannon – The Podcast
• Starting Over With Shannon – The Website
• Connect with and Follow Shannon on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, or TikTok
• Schedule a consult with Seth
• Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!

• 00:00 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 00:26 - Meet Shannon Jenkins
• 01:02 - A High Conflict Divorce
• 02:56 - Warning Signals
• 07:58 - Reactions From Family and Friends
• 09:10 - Background
• 10:40 - Learning More
• 12:42 - Realizing You Need to Leave
• 14:38 - The Act of Separating
• 18:18 - Escalation
• 20:36 - Breaking Point
• 23:43 - Getting Out of the Country
• 26:30 - Sponsor: Soberlink
• 28:43 - Roadblocks
• 29:39 - Ex Parte Hearing
• 32:42 - Allowed to Relocate
• 33:47 - His Downfall
• 34:40 - Current Status
• 36:51 - Hague Convention
• 37:50 - Final Judgment
• 39:28 - Finding Her Strength
• 42:27 - Moving On
• 47:18 - The Transition
• 51:01 - Finding Shannon and Wrapping Up

Divorce and Cryptocurrency

Hiding money from a spouse has been a part of divorce since divorce started, but what happens when it’s crypto? How about art in the form of NFTs? How should you handle these assets in your own divorce? Seth and Pete are joined in this episode by divorce attorney Sandra Radna to discuss how these assets in a divorce are similar and different from other assets.

About Sandra

Sandra M. Radna, Esq. is the owner of Law Offices of Sandra M. Radna, PC., a general practice law firm based in Long Island, New York. With 28 years of experience practicing law, representing divorcees since 1993, Radna founded Law Offices of Sandra M. Radna in 2012 and now leads an incredible team of attorneys. Radna was selected as the top 1% of Family Lawyers by the National Institute of Trial Lawyers, and was also chosen as a Lawyer of Distinction in the areas of Divorce and Family Law as recognized by the New York Times and USA Today.

Sandra has been recognized as a legal thought leader in Business Insider, Fox News, New York Observer, Washington Post, CNBC, Attorney At Law Magazine, The New York Law Journal, Decrypt Media, GOBanking Rates, Refinery 29, Shondaland, Scary Mommy, Ms. Magazine and more discussing crypto as a marital asset, child custody, legal advice, per and post nuptial agreements and more.

Links & Notes

• Schedule a consult with Seth
• Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
• Radna Law
• Sandra on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook
• You’re Getting Divorced... Now What?

• 00:00 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 00:26 - Meet Sandra Radna
• 01:26 - Defining Terms
• 03:35 - Hiding Money From a Spouse as Cryptocurrency
• 05:31 - Block Chains
• 07:33 - Mining
• 08:57 - Tracking Crypto Transactions
• 13:51 - Identifying Exchanges
• 14:25 - Crypto vs. Digital Transactions
• 15:46 - NFTs
• 19:42 - Listener Question
• 26:42 - Tax Implications
• 30:49 - Sponsor: Soberlink
• 33:48 - Differences in the Discovery Process
• 35:20 - The Metaverse and Other Digital Assets
• 38:04 - Prenups
• 38:40 - Wrapping Up

Our guest today has spent years in the publishing business, but it was only when her marriage broke up that she found the inspiration to write a book of her own. Available: A Memoir of Sex & Dating After a Marriage Ends, is a no-holds-barred look at post-divorce rehabilitation and the experiences of a woman on a journey of invention.

“Don’t judge me,” says author Laura Friedman Williams. And that’s one of the central messages in the book. It’s hard to re-engage, to re-ignite after a broken heart. And as much as this book is also a book about re-igniting a broken libido, it’s also very much a book about discovering who you are after you figure out the superficial sex stuff.

This isn’t a book about sexual reinvention. It’s a book about unlocking many, many new doors after sexual rediscovery. We hope this conversation piques your interest enough to explore it on your own. You can find it wherever you buy your books. In the mean time, you can follow her writing on Medium, follow her on Twitter and Instagram, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

• 01:19 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 01:45 - Intro to Laura Williams
• 02:42 - Learning to Be Open
• 07:19 - What's Happened Since
• 13:18 - Updating Your Emergency Contact
• 15:35 - The Two Women
• 22:08 - Finding Yourself
• 25:15 - Re-Tuning Your Happiness
• 34:17 - Sex as Tool for Re-Discovery
• 39:41 - Communication and Boundaries

We're still on our summer break and using the time to resurface some of our popular conversations. This week, we're talking to Erika Anne Englund about her experience as a former divorce attorney, mediator, and now chief of strategy at SupportPay. The big lesson from this episode? The path we walk can change with the language we use to define it.

Erika Anne Englund spent 15 years as a divorce attorney, professional mediator, and law professor before becoming Chief of Strategy at SupportPay. And she tells it like it is — divorce is hard for everyone involved. That’s why it’s so important to trap the language we use that piles negative emotion on an already difficult situation. To start, let’s agree to stop reading articles that have some variant of “Learn to Survive the Holidays after Divorce!” Let’s instead assume that survival isn’t a choice, and reframe the experience to be one of as much joy as we can muster so that we can be better parents, better co-parents, and happier people.

We can do that by sharpening our negotiation skills and Erika helps us on that path. From dealing with conflict to figuring out how to best get to “yes”, you’ll be more prepared for difficult conversations after our show this week.

Links & Notes

• Jerry Campbell and the Dynamic Tension Between Love and Fear • The Change Paradox Podcast

About Ericka Anne Englund

You can find Erika plying her trade at SupportPay — “the first financial platform for helping parents organize, manage, and transfer child support payments between each other.” Erika is internationally recognized for her expertise and ability to bridge the gaps between the worlds of family law, legal tech startups, and single parenting. She loves it. Erika is a happy co-parent of two young children (usually - she isn’t perfect), and she spends her extra time poorly attempting paddleboard yoga.

• 01:38 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 02:05 - Meet Erika Anne Englund
• 04:32 - Don't Survive the Holidays
• 19:14 - Ask for Help
• 30:49 - The Amygdala Hijack
• 48:45 - SupportPay
• 57:31 - Wrap Up

Bringing in a "forensic accountant" to your divorce team sounds serious, and it is. But it's far from the dour experience the title implies. In fact, having an expert in understanding the numbers in your divorce can play an invaluable role in creating a clear, accurate, and fair split.

As you listen, if you're not a numbers person (as Pete is certainly not), you might find the thought of the whole endeavor overwhelming. Is this an audit? How invasive is it? What will you have to provide? Yes, it's a lot, but with David's help, it's much more approachable than you imagine.

In addition, David shares his role in collaborative divorce, an alternative to litigation, and how you can work with your attorney and team toward interest-based bargaining that may be a more peaceful approach for your divorce.

About David Harper

David Harper and his firm, Westbay CPAs, specialize in litigation support services in financial matters involving forensic accounting and business valuation. In addition to his role as expert witness in litigated cases, Mr. Harper also serves as financial neutral in many collaborative cases, and is also part of a training team who has trained over 400 professionals across the country and around the world in the collaborative process.

• 00:39 - Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
• 01:30 - David Harper, Forensic Accountant
• 02:49 - What Is a Forensic Accountant?
• 05:27 - Vacation Days
• 06:59 - Two Buckets
• 08:24 - Who Brings Them In
• 12:46 - Client Involvement
• 14:02 - Not Quite an Audit
• 16:35 - Collaborative Divorce
• 20:10 - Getting to the Why
• 23:11 - Dealing With Conflict
• 27:09 - Discovery
• 28:08 - Incomplete or Manipulated Information
• 32:10 - Listener Question
• 39:38 - Jurisdictions
• 40:34 - Finding David
• 40:59 - Wrapping Up