Episodes

  • 🎙️ FS81 - Abimbola Olajide - Tactile, hands on practice

    🎙️ FS81 - Abimbola Olajide - Tactile, hands on practice
    May 15 2026
    In today's episode, Olivia is joined by Abimbola Olajide, serial social entrepreneur and Chief of Play, to explore tactile, hands-on facilitation and what it means to work with the whole person in the room. With a background spanning community convening, grief support, and corporate consultancy, Abimbola shares how she found her way into facilitation and why embodied, kinesthetic approaches are at the heart of everything she does. They talk about: ● paying close attention to embodied feeling when listening to stories ● how personal experience led to founding a CIC supporting people through life transitions ● her consultancy grounded in human-centred work, congruence, and her àjọṣe ("let's do it together") practice, using tools like LEGO Serious Play & modelling wax ● how metaphor, play and physical materials open up focus, emotion and better decision-making, even in corporate spaces. Quote highlights "The power of metaphor, but also using tactile with that, just allows people to go from 'fine'to actually 'this is what this model is saying today'... it gets from zero to deep really quick" "A decision doesnn;t have to be 'I need all the data, and then I need to be stressed... I can play about this'. The term would be blue sky thinking, but I call it purple cloud thinking" Links Today's guest: Abimbola Olajide — In Every Season CIC ; Atúnkò https://atunko.co.uk/ & https://www.linkedin.com/in/abimbola-olajide-67a54b63/ Today's host: Olivia Bellas — Coach, Facilitator, Learning Experience Designer https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliviabellas/ To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF England & Wales Chapter: 🎧 https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ 📧 podcast@iaf-ew.co.uk 🌐https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales Transcript Olivia: . so welcome to facilitation stories. how do facilitators end up in the profession? What methods and techniques can we learn together and we discover it all in this community podcast, brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Olivia Bellas and today I'm talking with Abimbola Olajide. Abimbola is also known as the Chief of Play. She's a serial social entrepreneur, passionate about the power of tactile play, fostering human-centered connection and growth, and she uses hands-on engagement to rewire mindsets in professional and community spaces. Welcome. Abimbola: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for welcoming me, and I'm so glad to be here. Olivia: Yeah. I am so looking forward to chatting today, and I know we have that focus area of the kind of tactile, the hands on practices, really looking forward to diving into all of that world. but firstly, I wanna actually just touch in on something. We'll be finding out more about you, but I wanna know today, what's making you smile in your world of facilitation. Just curious about your kind of current landscape, and then we'll get into a bit more about you. Abimbola: Okay, so, today what's making me smile in the world of facilitation I guess the connection to self, and I know that sounds very stereotypical, but I'll, I'll explain as a facilitator. I was at a workshop last week in the London Stock Exchange and there was, This guy, Peter Ra, he was telling us about storytelling and how we capture stories and you know, methods to just tell stories at an executive level. And one thing that really struck me from what he said was, you know, when you listen to a story or when you watch something or just noticing how you feel, and just that feeling and that part, I'm holding my belly area is just above, um, as I speak, but just how you feel, how something makes you feel. And that kind of made me stop and actually feel like, actually, you know, sometimes we. Ignore feelings or put them to the side, or we'll we'll have, whether it's chest tightening or you know, a gut feeling. Those are all indicators of our body telling us something. And him just saying, that actually made me really curious. Like when I listen to things or when I hear things or when I experience things, what's that feeling that I feel? What is it? So I've been really kind of curious. And listening out for that feeling. So that's kind of making me smile. 'cause sometimes it's like, ooh. What's that? Olivia: yeah. What's that? Kind of, either it might be there or it might not be there. Abimbola: Like, oh, what's that? I'm feeling something. Or how come I'm not feeling anything? So that itself, both of those are learning, by the way. 'cause it's discovery. Of myself. And I think when I apply that back into the work that I do, for the most part, if I'm doing work that I'm not feeling anything about, I think that also translates to the work that you do. There will be something not as warm or not quite captivating as it could be. So yeah, just that reminder to be like, oh. What am I feeling here? So that's, what's kind of ...
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    33 mins
  • 🎙️ FS 80 From Facilitation to Hosting: Creating Transformative Spaces with Peter Pula

    🎙️ FS 80 From Facilitation to Hosting: Creating Transformative Spaces with Peter Pula
    Jan 19 2026
    Todays episode explores the evolving relationship between facilitation and hosting, highlighting how both practices can create transformative spaces for individuals and communities. Peter Pula shares insights from years of cultivating community through participatory dialogue and generative journalism. The conversation delves into the distinctions between facilitation often structured and outcome driven and hosting, which embraces emergence, deep listening, and co-creation. They talk about: The difference between facilitation and hostingThe use of time triads and deep listenting in group practiceLearning from mistakes and adapting when things dont go as plannedMoving from command-and-control to particpatory approaches Quote highlights "I feel like I am participating in the unfolding of human evolution and the evolution of community, and I don't know how that can do anything but make you smile." "And by naming the failure it becomes something else and it becomes… Something powerful… " "Before it was a passion. Now it feels like an essential work." Links Todays Guest The Subsidiarist https://peterjpula.substack.com/ Citizen Studios https://citizenstudios.mn.co/about Linked In https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterpula/ Website: www.peterpula.com Cultivating Community Gatherings (free): https://www.tickettailor.com/events/peterpula/1786857 Todays host: Sam Moon: Faciliator www.linkedin.com/in/theboymoon123 Edited by: Cassie Austin Leaderful Action To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF England & Wales Chapter: 🎧 https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ 📧 podcast@iaf-englandwales.org 🌐 https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Transcript: Sam Moon & Peter Pula Sam: Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, the Community podcast of the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Sam Moon, and my guest today is Peter Pula. Peter is the founder of Axiom News, generative journalism, the Peter Borough Dialogues, and a proud member of the Generative Journalism Alliance. These days, he's mostly concerned with, in his own words, my beloved cultivating community going on six years now, and where I first met Peter during the first few weeks of COVID when I joined an online global gathering of folk exploring how we could be together apart during what was to become very uncertain times with long periods of lockdown. Peter crafted a space from which people shared experiences and stories where deep relationships began to form and has continued to do so amongst the community that first got together and others who have joined since. So honoring that my own facilitation journey has been shaped very much through Peter's commitment to life given approaches of facilitation, it is an absolute pleasure to welcome you here today, Peter, and on that note, and before we get into some juicy questions, please introduce yourself, who you are and what you get up to in your world of facilitation. Peter: Who am I? I think I will say today that I am a person who deeply cares about the wellbeing of humanity. I'm a person who's. Gravely concerned with the prevailing trends at the moment, and I believe that hosting and facilitating people in dialogue that brings to the surface. Their deepest gifts, talents, intentions, and passions in a way that encourages us to be differently together, might at one time have been a nice to have and now it's a need to have. So I'm fully committed to the practices of facilitation and hosting. With the view to, well, for me it's a calling and a critically important one. And that's why I'm glad to be here talking with you, Sam. 'cause we've travelled for a number of years. We've got a lot of, water under the bridge, a lot of experience under our belt. And, we've traveled through some of those crises together in community held in a certain way. And so I think we could say that's also what I'm up to. Sam: Thank you, Peter. You put that, in a really lovely way. And we've got some questions that we're gonna explore together, but if I can just invite you to expand a little bit more on, your experience of facilitation and hosting and how you have made a distinction between the two and how you hold those. Peter: When you look to the definition of facilitation and facilitator, there's not much there that I wouldn't say also applies to hosting. I think in a lot of practices though, there are some differences, and it might be sort of a spectrum where my idea of the practice of facilitation is that when facilitating, we are inviting people into a fairly, predetermined process and trying to bring them along to more of a predetermined outcome than you might be if you're hosting, it might be a learning outcome, for example, we want, by the end of this process for everyone to be able to say, speak ...
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    27 mins
  • 🎙️ FS79_Julia Slay & Ending Sessions Well

    🎙️ FS79_Julia Slay & Ending Sessions Well
    Dec 5 2025
    In today's episode, Olivia is joined by Julia Slay, founder of Facilitation 101, to explore an often-overlooked part of facilitation: how we end sessions well. With 15+ years' experience across social policy, consultancy and learning design, Julia shares her journey into facilitation and what sparked her growing fascination with powerful endings. They talk about: Why endings matter,and common mistakes at the close of sessions — rushed checkouts, lack of closure, and clunky feedback moments. How to design meaningful endings, using buffer time, reflection, grounding and action planning. The power of circularity too. Extending the ending beyond the room, with follow-ups and reconnection sessions.Plus creative closing practices, from body-based grounding to sound and movement. Quote highlights "A strong ending creates a feeling of completeness." "Reflection without action feels unfinished." Links Today's guest: Julia Slay, Founder, Facilitation 101 https://www.facilitation101.co.uk/courses?tag=Intensive https://myfreelancelife.substack.com/?r=b48m9&utm_campaign=pub-share-checklist https://www.linkedin.com/in/julia-slay-aa02b240/ Today's host: Olivia Bellas - Coach, Faciitator, Learning Experience Designer https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliviabellas/ To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF England & Wales Chapter: 🎧 https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ 📧 podcast@iaf-englandwales.org 🌐 https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales Transcript Olivia Bellas Welcome to facilitation stories. How do facilitators end up in the profession? What methods and techniques can we learn together? And we discover it all in this community Podcast, brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Olivia, and today I'm talking with Julia. S. Julia is the founder and director of Facilitation 1 0 1, which began in 2023 after a simple request for a two hour session, which turned into a three day intensive. This is the course that now distills everything she wishes she'd known when she first started facilitating previous to all of this. She held a range of different roles, across social policy and charities, meaning now 15 years of experience designing and leading workshops, strategy sessions, and learning programs. So everything from away days and team development to full strategy. Retreats and international events. And in my opinion, also I must follow on LinkedIn for her generous and human sharings on navigating the world of facilitation. Julia, it's great to have you. Welcome. Julia Slay Oh, lovely to be here. And that was a very kind, generous introduction as well. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Olivia Bellas Well, welcome. Welcome. So really looking forward to chatting today, and I know that we have a focus area. Mm-hmm. Which we will get into. So that focus area is looking at endings in workshops and why they're valuable, how we can do them. But for that, I wanted to kick off with, something that makes you smile. So thinking about your world of facilitation at the moment, what's making you smile? Julia Slay Mm, well, lots of things. I often feel like I have somehow landed doing a job that doesn't really feel like work. And surely that's like the dream. Well, it is for me anyway, that it's, , each day mostly. There are some small exceptions that mostly I feel really. Energized, focused, joyful with the work. But something that does always make me smile is when I'm running the training side of the work, I do the facilitation training through facilitation 1 0 1, and I'm in a room with really brilliant facilitators who often come from quite a wide range of disciplines, and they bring in their experience and I get to see and learn from them. Which is, which is kind of the. For me, one of the secret joys of running training is that you are learning all the time as well. And there was a course I ran a couple of weeks ago and someone who comes from a kind of theater background and has done a lot of work with, um, theater of the Oppressed was running an activity with the group and I just. Had a smile all over my face. She did an incredible job. And I kind of walked away thinking, yeah, I mean, I got to learn something new today that I've never seen before, and I absolutely loved it. So that, that brings me a lot of joy in my work at the moment. Olivia Bellas Hmm. Yeah, so you get the opportunity to, to have multiple smiles because of all of those, different perspectives of facilitators you are encountering. And actually, I'm quite. Intrigued by that. So you had someone from a theater background. , What other kinds of facilitators are you encountering? Julia Slay Yeah, well it's, it's getting much more diverse. Mm-hmm. I would say a year ago I was primarily working with and training people who were freelance. So, uh, self-employed, , people who often had a combination of kind of coaching, ...
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    34 mins
  • 🎙️ FS 78 – Relaunch Episode: Meet the New Hosts; Umah, Sam, Olivia

    🎙️ FS 78 – Relaunch Episode: Meet the New Hosts; Umah, Sam, Olivia
    Nov 21 2025
    In today's episode, the Facilitation Stories podcast returns with a brand-new hosting team — Olivia, Sam, and Umah — who share their stories, inspirations, and hopes for the next chapter of the podcast. They talk about: Why they joined the Facilitation Stories team and what excites them about podcasting as a way to connect facilitators and share learning. How their diverse backgrounds — from healthcare and construction to creative arts, community engagement and youth work — have shaped their facilitation practice. The power of collaboration and curiosity in creating spaces for reflection, learning, and human connection and what underpins their hopes for this podcast series And, of course, an important conversation about pets, TV guilty pleasures, and favourite biscuits! 🍪 "It's about creating space where people can make sense of their own stories — and find belonging in shared spaces." "Sometimes, facilitation is about slowing down, thinking, and making time for the conversations we don't usually have." Links Today's guests are the hosts themselves: Olivia Bellas https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliviabellas/ Sam Moon https://www.linkedin.com/in/theboymoon123/ Umah Ganeshalingam https://www.linkedin.com/in/umah/ To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF England & Wales Chapter: 🎧 Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ 📧 Email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org 🌐 IAF England & Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales Transcript Helene Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Helene Jewell and for the last time I am introducing the podcast because I'm going to be passing the baton onto this wonderful new team. We have Sam Moon, Olivia Bellas, and Umah Ganeshalingam. In this episode, you're going to hear Sam, Umah and Olivia talk about their hopes for the Facilitation Stories podcast, some of the work they all do, the kinds of things they're interested in hearing about, and the conversations they're hoping to have. And it just leaves me to say thanks to everybody that I've worked with on this podcast. Pilar Orti, who started the whole thing, Nikki Wilson, we worked together for ages and it has been absolutely fantastic working with both of them and to Rena Kosh as well, who does all the graphics and stuff that go out alongside the podcast and pretty much everybody else that's been listening, all the guests we've had over the last few years, it's been fantastic. Umah Thank you, Helen, and thank you to you and the team for everything that you've done today and handing it over so nicely to us. Helene Good luck to you all. Sam We'll be standing on the shoulders of giants. Thank you Helen. So I'll kick off with the question. What brings you here, Olivia, to the new crew, why was it important for you to be here? Olivia Podcasting as a format really works for me, so it's definitely a medium that I enjoy for work, for fun. The idea of being part of a crew, a team, building a podcast is really, really exciting to be a bit more behind the scenes. I remember I was at the IAF conference in April in Birmingham earlier this year and seeing this call out to see who's interested. And that was one reason. And then the other reason was actually I tend to collaborate a lot. This year, I haven't been really up until that point and was like, oh, what's missing? And it was that feeling that I was actually, as a facilitator, doing lots of solo work, which I think has value sometimes, but I was really missing more closer collaboration with others. Yeah. What about you, Sam? Sam I think it's curiosity, which is often very much my kind of North Star towards things and serendipity and an interest in being with others, exploring and discussing what I enjoy and the room and the space to do that with others, and also an excitement and interest in talking about, talking with and sharing conversation with other people who are in the facilitation world. And I think just the opportunity to play with those ideas and experience other people's experiences. Learn a little bit about this realm of podcasting, which I'm not massively familiar with myself. I'm here with openness to the curiosity of what is possible. Really. So Umah, come to you. What brings you here, and why was it important for you to be involved in the IAF podcast as a as a new crew member? Umah Mine all started with a conversation with Paul, where I had joined as a IAF member and as part of the intro, he spoke to me about the IAF, the podcast and said, oh, if I'm keen, I could be involved in it. And almost the day I joined as a member, I say, yeah, I'll happily get involved with the podcast too. And then it was about finding other people to do it with us, and he mentioned it at the conference, which unfortunately I couldn't attend,...
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    28 mins
  • FS 77 Facilitation in the Agile Space with Farah Egby and Çiğdem Saka Jackson

    FS 77 Facilitation in the Agile Space with Farah Egby and Çiğdem Saka Jackson
    May 20 2025

    In today's episode Helene speaks to Farah Egby and Cigdem Saka-Jackson about Agile. They talk about:

    • Agile as a set of working practices that prioritises people over processes and tools;

    • Farah and Cigdem's previous work and journeys into Agile facilitation;

    • The roles and functions that the "Scrum Master" and "Kanban" play in Agile;

    • Roles and techniques in Agile facilitation and tips on how to do it;

    "I think you need to care. You have to be a caring person. I definitely don't believe it is, it is a rule book and just a set of applicable guidelines. You have to care about the people you work with and the team you're working with".

    • How Agile can be applied in different contexts including personally.

    "There are things that you can also apply to your own life individually, you can stop and have a moment to reflect, even if you don't do it with a formal process".

    Links

    Today's guests:

    Farah Egby:

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/farah-egby/

    farah@tuntara.co.uk

    Cigdem Saka-Jackson:

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A7i%C4%9Fdem-saka-jackson-7885a111/

    cigdemsaka@gmail.com

    To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter:

    Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/

    And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org

    IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales

    The Facilitation Stories Team

    Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/

    Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/
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    42 mins
  • FS 76 Chapter Chat with Andrew Spiteri EME Regional Director

    FS 76 Chapter Chat with Andrew Spiteri EME Regional Director
    Mar 25 2025

    In this episode Helene talks to Andrww Spiteri, Regional Director of the IAF Europe and Middle East Region.

    Andrew tells Helene about himself as a facilitator, the kind of work he does and his background with IAF.

    He became regional director at the start of the year and shares a bit about the work he has been involved in so far, his roles and responsibilities as director, and what he would like to see in future for the region and beyond.

    He tells us about the regional conference in Romania in November 2025 and about what he most loves about facilitation.

    You can contact Andrew at: rep.europe@iaf-world.org

    And Helene at helene@jewellfacilitation.com

    To contact the podcast team: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org
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    39 mins
  • FS 75 Race Ahead for Facilitators with Bianca Jones, Cat Duncan-Rees and Paul Brand

    FS 75 Race Ahead for Facilitators with Bianca Jones, Cat Duncan-Rees and Paul Brand
    Feb 18 2025
    In this episode Helene talks to Bianca Jones - Award Winning Mental Health & Anti-Racism Training Provider, MHFA England Associate and Founder & Managing Director of EDP Training, Paul Brand- Facilitator and Management Consultant, Director at Risk Solutions and IAF England and Wales board member and Cat Duncan-Rees- Facilitator and founder of Curators of Change and also an IAF England and Wales board member. She starts by asking Bianca to talk a bit about the work she does and what led her to develop EDP and the Race Ahead training She asks Cat and Paul about what led the IAF England and Wales Leadership Team to ask Bianca to deliver this training course online in October and about their key takeaways. Cat and Paul talk about the RA4F special thread at the IAF England and Wales conference Facilitate 2025 this year and where the idea came from? Bianca shares some examples of specific impact or changes she's seen in a facilitator's approach after attending Race Ahead Bianca gives some more details her session at the conference and the training course she is offering the day before. All the guests then talk about why a focus around racial equality at the conference is important and why active race awareness matters in facilitation and what anti-racism might look like for facilitators. The guests also talk about their hopes for longer term initiatives in teh facilitation communicty around anti-racism. To book onto the RA4F course on 24th April 2025: To book onto the Facilitate 2025 conference To contact Bianca - bianca@edptraining.co.uk To contact Cat - cat@curatorsofchange.com To contact Paul - paul.brand@risksol.co.uk To contact Helene: Helene@jewellfacilitation.com To contact the conference team: conference@iaf-englandwales.org Transcript H.J Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories brought to you by the England and Wales chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name is Helene Jewell, and today we're going to be talking to Bianca Jones, Cat Duncan-Rees and Paul Brand. Bianca is an award winning mental health and anti racism training provider, MHFA England associate and founder and managing director of EDP training. Paul is a facilitator and management consultant, Director at Risk Solutions and IAF England and Wales board member and Cat is also a facilitator, founder of curators of change, and also an IAF England and Wales board member. Welcome everybody. So nice to see you all. Okay, so we've got a little bit of introductory stuff out of the way. I am going to dive in with my questions, and my first one is to you, Bianca, tell us all. Tell us about the work that you do. B.J Oh, thank you so much. So I am Bianca Jones. I run a company based in Bristol called EDP training, which stands for Empower developed people, although we deliver training all over. We are eight years old, and we started by delivering Mental Health First Aid training. I retrained with Mental Health First Aid England, and through my work, I saw that there was massive inequalities in the workplace with black and brown people or racially minoritized individuals is the language that I will use, and I wanted to do something about it. So I started pulling together the race ahead suite of courses all around race, equity and allyship, to help people really understand what they're being an ally to. And that's been since 2020. We've been delivering our race ahead suite of anti racism and allyship courses . H.J Great, and what kind of people come to these race ahead training courses? B.J So first of all, anybody can sign up, because we have digital options as well, and anybody who's interested in kind of racial inequality. But we started focusing at corporate organisations, so mainly businesses, but I work with so many different types of organisations, small organisations to really, really large you know, with over 500 people, we work with charities as well, nonprofits, and we have lots of different options for if it's just an individual that wants to do some training, they can access our digital self-led options. And then we also have a train the trainer, because other trainers wanted to be able to train in this course and be able to deliver it as well. So we started that in 2022 in September, I believe. So we've currently got 15 other instructors out there that are delivering the race ahead suite of courses as well, but we tried to have lots of different options to make it accessible for anyone that wants to learn about this very important and vital subject. H.J Wow. So it's not just you. In fact, there's quite a large group of you then. B.J Absolutely taking over, spreading the message with the mission of race equity and allyship. H.J Fantastic. Okay, and I've met you before, along with some of the IAF leadership team, because you delivered your race ahead training course to us, didn't you? And so I'm going to turn to Kat and Paul now to just remind us, or ...
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    44 mins
  • FS74 Representation and Lego with Camilla Gordon

    FS74 Representation and Lego with Camilla Gordon
    Jan 21 2025
    In this episode Nikki talks to Camilla Gordon, a process facilitator , about representation in Lego and her new "Figiverse" project. They talk about How Camilla uses Lego Serious Play in facilitation The lack of representation within Lego 'I had people of colour seeing these more representative Lego pieces and had really emotional reactions to it, because people have never seen themselves in these pieces' 'It has become so normalised that particular identities don't get represented in different spaces' Improving representation and access to more diverse Lego pieces 'recognizing that these forms of representation shouldn't be separated from the more traditional Lego pieces, but actually should be a core part of those packs' Camilla's new "Figiverse" project including how it started and future plans A full transcript is below. Links: Today's guest: www.Camillagordon.co.uk www.Figiverse.co.uk To find out more about Facilitation Stories and the IAF and the England and Wales Chapter: Facilitation Stories website: https://facilitationstories.libsyn.com/ And to email us: podcast@iaf-englandwales.org IAF England and Wales: https://www.iaf-world.org/site/chapters/england-wales The Facilitation Stories Team: Helene Jewell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helenejewell/ Nikki Wilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolawilson2/ Transcript N.W Hello and welcome to Facilitation Stories, the community podcast of the England and Wales Chapter of the International Association of Facilitators, also known as IAF. My name's Nikki Wilson, and today I'm going to be speaking to Camilla Gordon. So welcome, Camilla. To get us started would you like to tell us a little bit more about you and what you do. C.G Sure. So I am a freelance facilitator, and I'm a process facilitator. So focused on getting groups from A to B, I am what I would call sector agnostic. So work across a range of different sectors with lots of different clients and groups from unaccompanied children, refugees and asylum seekers all the way through to corporate boards, and part of my approach in doing that work is trying to facilitate processes that are more inclusive, kind of recognizing power dynamics and hierarchies and rooms. I'm really clear that I'm not a D&I facilitator. For me, that's just the core part of how I work, rather than it being a kind of defined piece. And so, yeah, I do lots of kinds of work, lots of different places, lots of different processes. N.W Great. And so the focus of today's conversation is Lego. So how and why do you use Lego in your work? C.G So I'm a Lego Serious Play facilitator, or what I usually like to say, I'm trained in Lego Serious Play. I say that because I use elements of Lego Serious Play in my work. But I'm not wedded to it in a strict way, in relationship to the process and how it works. I like to take bits and pieces of different methods and tools to make it work for the group, and so use Lego in a range of different ways within the different processes that I run from using Lego Serious Play in its most formal sense, but also using Lego as a tool to explore different parts of conversations and in different ways. N.W And so while you like to use some Lego, I believe you noticed there was something that you didn't like about it. So could you tell us a little bit more about that? C.G Yeah, definitely. I started using Lego Serious Play about seven years ago, and one of the first things I noticed was the lack of representation within Lego. I saw lots of yellow faces, I saw lots of yellow hands, but I didn't see any representation of black and brown heads and hands. I didn't see any representation of disabled people. I didn't see representation in many ways, in the Lego that I was using. Following on from that, I spent a lot of time looking for some of those pieces, looking for ways to bring representation into my kit, because the groups that I work with were because the groups that I work with are from a huge range of different backgrounds with a huge range of different identities. And on that journey, I realised part of the reason I didn't have that in my kit to begin with was because very little of it existed in the world. I ended up on Lego resale websites, talking to Lego dealers, and while there were a few representations of black and brown heads, a lot of them were double printed with happy and angry on either side. And I was very aware of the stereotypes and tropes that come along with racial stereotypes, and I didn't want to feature that in my kit. And in the end, I had to get them custom printed, so I bought a whole load of heads with the formal colour being reddish brown or medium Nougat, which is the term the colour definition from LEGO. I had to get them custom printed. And obviously, recognizing representation isn't just about racial representation. I also spent a lot of time looking for other identities that could be represented. And looked at things like...
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    22 mins