Michael Shermer and Jeff Sebo explore moral philosophy, focusing on animal rights, sentience, and consciousness. They discuss the definitions of morality, ethical pluralism, and the divide between consequentialism and deontology. The conversation examines who belongs in our moral circle, the ethics of insect farming, the future of animal agriculture, abortion, and whether advanced AI could be considered sentient beings or even co-citizens.

The guests today are co-authors of a new paper in Science Advances titled: “A reassessment of the ‘hard-steps’ model for the evolution of intelligent life.”

Jennifer Macalady is a Professor of Geosciences at the Pennsylvania State University. Her research is focused on microbial ecology and evolution, and interactions between microorganisms and Earth materials like minerals and water through geologic time.

Daniel B. Mills is a postdoctoral researcher in the Orsi Geomicrobiology Lab at The University of Munich in Germany. His research focuses on the co-evolutionary history of Earth's surface environment and eukaryotic life—a topic he approaches by studying modern marine organisms and environments. He also applies this research to the ongoing search for exoplanetary biosignatures and technosignatures.

Shermer, Mills, and Macalady discuss the Hard Steps model of the evolution of intelligent life, the Drake Equation, the Fermi Paradox, the Great Filter, and the Great Silence. They also cover the Rare Earth hypothesis, major transitions in evolution, the uniqueness of humans, and the search for biosignatures and technosignatures.

What is a sugar daddy, really? The answer might disturb you. Brook Urick takes us into the shadowy world of sugar dating, where young women are lured into dangerous situations under the guise of financial security. From being a would-be sugar baby to becoming the public face of SeekingArrangement, Urick unveils the unsettling truth about these platforms and their role in enabling predatory behavior.

Urick’s revelations go beyond personal experience. She exposes how these websites intentionally protect exploiters, with their founder even caught in a sting operation attempting to meet a minor. With the passage of FOSTA-SESTA in 2018, making these platforms criminally liable, she questions why they still exist. Her goal? To bring public awareness and legal scrutiny to an industry built on deception and harm.

Shermer and Urick discuss the realities of sugar dating, the blurred lines between sex work and exploitation, and the psychology of men and women in the industry. They explore legal and ethical debates, feminist perspectives, and societal consequences of prostitution and pornography. Urick shares her experiences at SeekingArrangement, including the dangers young women face and the website’s role in fostering systemic abuse and deception.