Episodes

  • Prologue: "What you do, and what you don't do"

    Prologue: "What you do, and what you don't do"
    Jul 19 2022
    This is the prologue to the podcast "Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley." The Okanagan Valley of the southern interior of British Columbia has been shaped by fire for millennia: by cultural burning by First Nations communities, by lightning fires, and by patterns of settler-colonial burning and fire suppression. In the wake of large and severe wildfire seasons and predictions of worsening wildfires fueled by climate change, there are calls for both interdisciplinary problem-solving among fire experts and for more public engagement to transform how we live with fire in British Columbia. Understanding the history of fire in this place can contribute to better fire use, management, and response that accounts for human and more-than-human ecological health and recognizes multiple forms of important fire expertise. This podcast series explores the ways that fire history informs present and future ways of living with and understanding fire in and around this Valley.“Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley” was created by Judith Burr as her master's thesis project in the Digital Arts & Humanities theme of the Interdisciplinary Graduate Studies program at the University of British Columbia Okanagan. This work was supported by UBC-Okanagan’s feminist digital humanities lab, the AMP Lab. This project was also supported in part by the Government of Canada’s New Frontiers in Research Fund (NFRF) through UBC Okanagan’s “Living with Wildfire” Project. This podcast was created on the unceded territory of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.SHOW NOTESThe music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions, and you can find specific tracks cited in the transcript: https://www.sessions.blue/Aseem Sharma, Piyush Jain, Mike Flannigan, and John Abatzoglou, “Perspectives on the June 2021 heatwave and wildfires,” June 2, 2021, https://www.canadawildfire.org/heatwave; Michaels, Kathy. “32 Okanagan residents died from heat wave: BC Coroner’s Office.” Global News, November 1, 2021, https://globalnews.ca/news/8340607/okanagan-residents-died-heat-wave-bc-coroners-office. BC Wildfire Service, “Wildfires of Note,” Accessed April 2022 at http://bcfireinfo.for.gov.bc.ca.“BC Coroners Service confirms 2 deaths in Lytton wildfire.” CBC News, July 3, 2021, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lytton-wildfire-sat-update-1.6089367. Ball, David. “B.C. admits communications with First Nations during Lytton fire 'didn't live up to expectations'.” CBC News, July 4, 2021, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-first-nations-communications-gaps-1.6089869.Chad Pawson, “Dozens of Okanagan residents cope with the news their homes have been lost to wildfire,” CBC News, August 17, 2021, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/dozens-of-okanagan-residents-cope-with-the-news-their-homes-have-been-lost-to-wildfire-1.6144478. “Fire Perimeters – Historical.” Statistics and Geospatial Data. BC Wildfire Service. Available at https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/wildfire-status/about-bcws/wildfire-statistics.Ellen Simmons, “British Columbia’s Indigenous People: The Burning Issue,” Journal of Ecosystems and Management, FORREX Forum for Research and Extension in Natural Resources, 13, no. 2 (2012): 1–2, https://jem-online.org/forrex/index.php/jem/article/download/200/466/2021.; Don Gayton, “Fire-Maintained Ecosystems and the Effects of Forest Ingrowth,” Province of British Columbia Ministry of Forests, Nelson Forest Region, December 1996, https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/docs/scv/SCV692.pdf.As one example of the vibrancy of place-specific fire knowledge, Indigenous fire stewardship knowledge is highly specific to places and an active form of good fire use in those places: Victor Steffensen, Fire Country: How Indigenous Fire Management Could Help Save Australia (Sydney: Hardie Grant Travel, 2020), https://www.hardiegrant.com/au/publishing/bookfinder/book/fire-country-by-victor-steffensen/9781741177268; Jared Dahl Aldern and Ron Goode, “The Stories Hold Water: Learning and Burning in North Fork Mono Homelands,” Decolonization: Indigeneity, Education & Society 3, no. 3 (2014): 26–51. Also, scientific studies of fire history often make the point that local or ecosystem-specific understandings of fire history are important for planning how best to manage fire-prone landscapes: Emily K. Heyerdahl, Ken Lertzman, and Carmen M. Wong, “Mixed-Severity Fire Regimes in Dry Forests of Southern Interior British Columbia, Canada,” Canadian Journal of Forest Research 42, no. 1 (January 2012): 88–98.; Alexandra Pogue, “Humans, Climate and an Ignitions-Limited Fire Regime at Vaseux Lake” (Master of Science in Forestry, The University of British Columbia, 2017), https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0343231.Judee Burr, “Re-Kindling the Flame: Indigenous Communities and Fire Management ...
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    12 mins
  • Episode 1: "Pick your poison, or pick your medicine"

    Episode 1: "Pick your poison, or pick your medicine"
    Jul 20 2022
    This episode features interviews with Fire Keeper and former wildland firefighter Joe Gilchrist; ethnobotanist Nancy Turner; grassland ecologist and writer Don Gayton; UBCO professor and Living with Wildfire project lead Mathieu Bourbonnais; and a clip from the Good Fire Podcast of Penticton Indian Band Fire Keeper Pierre Kruger. We discuss histories and legacies of cultural burning, fire suppression, and fire ecology in and around the Okanagan Valley in the southern interior of British Columbia. “Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley” was created by Judith Burr as her master's thesis project in the Digital Arts & Humanities theme of the Interdisciplinary Graduate Studies program at the University of British Columbia Okanagan. This work was supported by UBC-Okanagan’s feminist digital humanities lab, the AMP Lab. This project was also supported in part by the Government of Canada’s New Frontiers in Research Fund (NFRF) through UBC Okanagan’s “Living with Wildfire” Project. This podcast was created on the unceded territory of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.SHOW NOTESThese show notes are approximately in order of mention, rather than alphabetical. See them cited to specific moments of the episode using the episode transcript.The music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions, and you can find specific tracks cited in the transcript: https://app.sessions.blue.Opening recording is from a recording of cultural burn on Coldwater Indian Reserve led by Joe Gilchrist and the Salish Fire Keepers Society on May 4, 2022. Joe Gilchrist has represented the Salish Fire Keepers Society in interviews, such as this one with CBC: Ethan Sawyer, “B.C. policy-makers urged to embrace controlled burns to reduce wildfire risk,” CBC News, 12 July 2021, https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-policy-makers-urged-to-embrace-controlled-burns-to-reduce-wildfire-risk-1.6096930. He has also shared Indigenous fire stewardship knowledge in other projects, including: Shackan Indian Band et al., “Shackan Indian Band Report Executive Summary,” Revitalizing traditional burning: Integrating Indigenous cultural values into wildfire management and climate change adaptation planning (Department of Indigenous Services Canada (DISC) First Nations Adapt Program, 2019), https://www.fness.bc.ca/resources/library/forest-fuel-management/revitalizing-cultural-burning.; Blazing the Trail: Celebrating Indigenous Fire Stewardship (FireSmart Canada, 2020), https://firesmartcanada.ca/product/blazing-the-trail-celebrating-indigenous-fire-stewardship/.Blazing the Trail: Celebrating Indigenous Fire Stewardship (FireSmart Canada, 2020), https://firesmartcanada.ca/product/blazing-the-trail-celebrating-indigenous-fire-stewardship/.Biogeoclimatic Ecosystem Classification Program, https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hre/becweb/resources/maps/Background.html.Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff (Hosts), “Indigenous Fire Keepers Workshop in Merritt BC, Canada with Pierre Kruger,” Good Fire, accessed November 5, 2021, https://yourforestpodcast.com/good-fire-podcast/2019/9/2/interior-fire-keepers-worshope-in-merrit-bc-canada-with-pierre-krueger.Tammy Allison and Henry Michel summarized the cultural burning knowledge Elder and Fire Keeper Annie Kruger shared at a 2003 workshop, writing: “Okanagan People, according to Elders, exist in a reciprocal relationship with the land. The land provides all foods, medicines, shelter and material goods needed for survival; in return, Okanagans are responsible to be caretakers of the land…Fire has been a major component of this responsibility for Okanagans… Traditional Okanagan burning practices were regularly maintained until about thirty or forty years ago. Elders speak of forest conditions then that are far different from what we have become accustomed to today…Fire Keepers visited an area on a regular basis to determine the frequency and prescription for burning. Today, only certain families maintain the practice in small confined areas such as on Indian Reserves and, in many cases, even this level of burning has been discouraged. Being a Fire Keeper is a responsibility of life long learning passed down from generation to generation.” Tammy Allison and Henry Michel, “Helping Our Land Heal: A Cultural Perspective on Fire and Forest Restoration,” BC Grasslands: Magazine of the Grasslands Conservation Council of British Columbia, October 2004, https://bcgrasslands.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2004-fall_bcgrasslands.pdf.; Syilx Okanagan fire stewardship teachings are also mentioned in: Ellen Simmons, “British Columbia’s Indigenous People: The Burning Issue,” Journal of Ecosystems and Management, FORREX Forum for Research and Extension in Natural Resources, 13, no. 2 (2012): 1–2, https://jem-online.org/forrex/index.php/jem/article/download/200/466/2021.I have learned about the work of the Penticton Indian Band (one of eight member communities ...
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    53 mins
  • Episode 2: "Challenging, beautiful bioregion"

    Episode 2: "Challenging, beautiful bioregion"
    Jul 20 2022
    This episode features interviews with poet Sharon Thesen; foresters Daryl Spencer, Dave Gill, and Gord Pratt; UBCO Living with Wildfire project lead Mathieu Bourbonnais; forest technologist Jeff Eustache; and FireSmart program lead Kelsey Winter. We discuss protecting communities in and around the Okanagan Valley from wildfire danger in light of recent wildfire seasons.“Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley” was created by Judith Burr as her master's thesis project in the Digital Arts & Humanities theme of the Interdisciplinary Graduate Studies program at the University of British Columbia Okanagan. This work was supported by UBC-Okanagan’s feminist digital humanities lab, the AMP Lab. This project was also supported in part by the Government of Canada’s New Frontiers in Research Fund (NFRF) through UBC Okanagan’s “Living with Wildfire” Project. This podcast was created on the unceded territory of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.SHOW NOTESThese show notes are approximately in order of mention, rather than alphabetical. See them cited to specific moments of the episode using the episode transcript.In this episode, we hear clips from a cover of Bob Dylan’s “All Along the Watchtower” from the Lent Fraser Wall Trio’s album “Shadow Moon.” Used throughout this episode with permission from John Lent. The rest of the music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions, and you can find specific tracks cited in the transcript: https://app.sessions.blue.Catherine Owens, Locations of Grief: An Emotional Geography (Hamilton: Wolsack & Wynn, 2020).“It is clear that a successful record of fire suppression has led to a fuel buildup in the forests of British Columbia. The fuel buildup means that there will be more significant and severe wildfires, and there will be more interface fires, unless action is taken.” Filmon, G. (2004). Firestorm 2003: Provincial Review. Government of British Columbia, https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/public-safety-and-emergency-services/wildfire-status/governance/bcws_firestormreport_2003.pdf.“Master Plan for Okanagan Mountain Provincial Park.” 1990. Kamloops, B.C.: B.C. Parks, Southern Interior Region.My analysis of B.C. Wildfire Service data using QGIS. Okanagan watershed defined by watershed atlas polygons and compiled by fellow Living with Wildfire researcher Renée Larsen. Area burned data from: “Fire Perimeters – Historical.” Statistics and Geospatial Data. BC Wildfire Service. Available at https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/wildfire-status/about-bcws/wildfire-statistics.Xwisten et al., “Xwisten Report Executive Summary,” Revitalizing traditional burning: Integrating Indigenous cultural values into wildfire management and climate change adaptation planning (Department of Indigenous Services Canada (DISC) First Nations Adapt Program, 2019), Accessed April 2022 at https://www.fness.bc.ca/core-programs/forest-fuel-management/first-nations-adapt-program.; Eli Hirtle, Xwisten (Bridge River Indian Band) (Masinipayiwin Films, 2019), Accessed April 2022 at https://vimeo.com/383104228.; Shackan Indian Band et al., “Shackan Indian Band Report Executive Summary,” Revitalizing traditional burning: Integrating Indigenous cultural values into wildfire management and climate change adaptation planning (Department of Indigenous Services Canada (DISC) First Nations Adapt Program, 2019), https://www.fness.bc.ca/core-programs/forest-fuel-management/first-nations-adapt-program.; Eli Hirtle, Shackan Indian Band (Masinipayiwin Films, 2019), https://vimeo.com/383108850.Forest Enhancement Society of BC, “Projects,” Accessed May 2022, https://www.fesbc.ca/projects.Amy Thiessen, “Sharon Thesen’s ‘The Fire’,” English Undergraduate Honours Thesis, 2020, https://sharonthesenthefire.omeka.net/about. More Resources: FireSmart Canada, https://firesmartcanada.ca/; Blazing the Trail, https://firesmartcanada.ca/product/blazing-the-trail-celebrating-indigenous-fire-stewardship.; Nature Conservancy, Prescribed Fire Training Exchanges (TREX), http://www.conservationgateway.org/ConservationPractices/FireLandscapes/HabitatProtectionandRestoration/Training/TrainingExchanges/Pages/fire-training-exchanges.aspx; Karuk Climate Change Projects, “Fire Works!,” https://karuktribeclimatechangeprojects.com/fire-works; NC State University, “Prescribed Burn Associations,” https://sites.cnr.ncsu.edu/southeast-fire-update/prescribed-burn-associations; Firesticks Alliance, https://www.firesticks.org.au.   More Fire Podcasts: Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff (Hosts), Good Fire Podcast, https://yourforestpodcast.com/good-fire-podcast; Amanda Monthei (host), Life with Fire Podcast, https://lifewithfirepodcast.com; Adam Huggins and Mendel Skulski (hosts), “On Fire: Camas, Cores, and Spores (Part 1),” Future Ecologies Podcast, August 29, 2018, https://www.futureecologies.net/listen/fe1-5-on-fire-pt-1.
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    56 mins
  • Episode 3: "The lighter footprint of fire"

    Episode 3: "The lighter footprint of fire"
    Jul 20 2022
    This episode features interviews with ignition specialist and ecosystem scientist Sonja Leverkus; forester Dave Gill; wildfire and fuel management consultant John Davies; Vernon Fire Chief David Lind; South Okanagan BC Parks supervisor Wendy Pope; Canadian Forest Service research scientist and Indigenous fire stewardship expert Amy Cardinal Christianson; and Fire Keeper and former wildland firefighter Joe Gilchrist. We discuss cultural burning, prescribed fire, reducing wildfire risk, and balancing multiple values on the land in the Okanagan Valley and BC.“Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley” was created by Judith Burr as her master's thesis project in the Digital Arts & Humanities theme of the Interdisciplinary Graduate Studies program at the University of British Columbia Okanagan. This work was supported by UBC-Okanagan’s feminist digital humanities lab, the AMP Lab. This project was also supported in part by the Government of Canada’s New Frontiers in Research Fund (NFRF) through UBC Okanagan’s “Living with Wildfire” Project. This podcast was created on the unceded territory of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.SHOW NOTESThese show notes are approximately in order of mention, rather than alphabetical. See them cited to specific moments of the episode using the episode transcript.The music in this episode is from Blue Dot Sessions, and you can find specific tracks cited in the transcript: https://app.sessions.blue.See my full interviews with Sonja Leverkus and John Davies for more about prescribed burning best practices. They will be posted here by fall 2022: listeningtofirepodcast.ca.Westland clip used with permission from UBC Open Collections. Mike Halleran, “Westland: ‘Black and Green: A Film on Prescribed Fire in British Columbia,’” video, Westland, 1984, UBC Open Collections, 10.14288/1.0109062.“Prescribed burning in British Columbia by year and area” [Chart], from Kira M. Hoffman, “Our Future with Fire: Barriers and Opportunities for the Revitalization of Fire Stewardship,” Accessed May 24, 2022 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QD3qezRW7o.“Total provincial silvicultural prescribed burning declined from about 60,000 ha per year in the early 1970’s to approximately 17,000 ha per year in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s.”: John Parminter, “Burning Alternatives Panel: A Review of Fire Ecology, Fire History and Prescribed Burning in Southern British Columbia,” Presented to the Sixth Annual Fire Management Symposium Southern Interior Fire Management Committee (Kelowna, B.C., May 29, 1991), https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hre/pubs/pubs/1115.htm.William Cronon, Uncommon Ground: Rethinking the Human Place in Nature, Book, Whole (New York: W.W. Norton & Co, 1996).Alex Wilson, The Culture of Nature: North American Landscape from Disney to the Exxon Valdez (Second Edition), (Toronto: Between the Lines, 2019).Kelsey Copes-Gerbitz et al., “BC Community Forest Perspectives and Engagement in Wildfire Management” (Report to the Union of BC Municipalities, First Nations’ Emergency Services Society, BC Community Forest Association and BC Wildfire Service, September 2020), https://www.preventionweb.net/files/74613_74613bccommunityengagementinwildfir.pdf.BC Government, “Community Forest Agreements,” Accessed May 2022, https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/forestry/forest-tenures/timber-harvesting-rights/community-forest-agreements.United Nations Environment Programme (2022). Spreading like Wildfire – The Rising Threat of Extraordinary Landscape Fires. A UNEP Rapid Response Assessment (Nairobi), https://www.unep.org/resources/report/spreading-wildfire-rising-threat-extraordinary-landscape-fires.More Resources: FireSmart Canada, https://firesmartcanada.ca/; Blazing the Trail, https://firesmartcanada.ca/product/blazing-the-trail-celebrating-indigenous-fire-stewardship.; Nature Conservancy, Prescribed Fire Training Exchanges (TREX), http://www.conservationgateway.org/ConservationPractices/FireLandscapes/HabitatProtectionandRestoration/Training/TrainingExchanges/Pages/fire-training-exchanges.aspx; Karuk Climate Change Projects, “Fire Works!,” https://karuktribeclimatechangeprojects.com/fire-works; NC State University, “Prescribed Burn Associations,” https://sites.cnr.ncsu.edu/southeast-fire-update/prescribed-burn-associations; Firesticks Alliance, https://www.firesticks.org.au.   More Fire Podcasts: Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff (Hosts), Good Fire Podcast, https://yourforestpodcast.com/good-fire-podcast; Amanda Monthei (host), Life with Fire Podcast, https://lifewithfirepodcast.com; Adam Huggins and Mendel Skulski (hosts), “On Fire: Camas, Cores, and Spores (Part 1),” Future Ecologies Podcast, August 29, 2018, https://www.futureecologies.net/listen/fe1-5-on-fire-pt-1.
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    1 hr and 4 mins
  • Epilogue: "The solution is not inside me"

    Epilogue: "The solution is not inside me"
    Jul 20 2022

    This is the epilogue to the podcast series "Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley." Judee reflects on the process of doing interdisciplinary, public-facing fire research in the form of a podcast, and on being guided by feminist values.

    This podcast series explores the ways that fire history informs present and future ways of living with and understanding fire in and around the Okanagan Valley. “Listening to Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley” was created by Judith Burr as her master's thesis project in the Digital Arts & Humanities theme of the Interdisciplinary Graduate Studies program at the University of British Columbia Okanagan. This work was supported by UBC-Okanagan’s feminist digital humanities lab, the AMP Lab. This project was also supported in part by the Government of Canada’s New Frontiers in Research Fund (NFRF) through UBC Okanagan’s “Living with Wildfire” Project. This podcast was created on the unceded territory of the Syilx Okanagan Nation.

    SHOW NOTES

    The music in this episode is “Set the Tip Jar” by Blue Dot Sessions, https://app.sessions.blue/browse/track/121831.

    See my thesis background document – “Listening to Fire Naturecultures: A Feminist Academic Podcast of Fire Knowledges in and around the Okanagan Valley” – for a more complete theorization of these values and the way they have shaped my research design and practice. It will be available by fall 2022 on UBC’s digital repository for research materials: https://circle.ubc.ca. 

    I actually misread the date when I was making this personal reflection recording, it was actually January 14, 2022.

    More Resources: FireSmart Canada, https://firesmartcanada.ca/; Blazing the Trail, https://firesmartcanada.ca/product/blazing-the-trail-celebrating-indigenous-fire-stewardship.; Nature Conservancy, Prescribed Fire Training Exchanges (TREX), http://www.conservationgateway.org/ConservationPractices/FireLandscapes/HabitatProtectionandRestoration/Training/TrainingExchanges/Pages/fire-training-exchanges.aspx; Karuk Climate Change Projects, “Fire Works!,” https://karuktribeclimatechangeprojects.com/fire-works; NC State University, “Prescribed Burn Associations,” https://sites.cnr.ncsu.edu/southeast-fire-update/prescribed-burn-associations; Firesticks Alliance, https://www.firesticks.org.au.   

    More Fire Podcasts: Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff (Hosts), Good Fire Podcast, https://yourforestpodcast.com/good-fire-podcast; Amanda Monthei (host), Life with Fire Podcast, https://lifewithfirepodcast.com; Adam Huggins and Mendel Skulski (hosts), “On Fire: Camas, Cores, and Spores (Part 1),” Future Ecologies Podcast, August 29, 2018, https://www.futureecologies.net/listen/fe1-5-on-fire-pt-1.
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    14 mins