Heaven is multiethnic. Are you ready for that?

The Bible tells us that the congregation gathered around God's heavenly throne will be “a vast multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language,” all singing the praises of the Lamb. God's intention has always been to delight for all eternity in a redeemed community of ethnic diversity. But this diverse community shouldn't have to wait until eternity to begin. It can start here and now.

Dr. Jamaal Williams, pastor of Sojourn Church Midtown in Louisville, has coauthored a book entitled In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture to show how Christians can pursue this vision. This work from Jamaal and one of your intrepid cohosts gives biblical warrant for multiethnic, multisocioeconomic, and multigenerational churches and shows how such communities provide a unique apologetic for the gospel—and that’s how this book intersects with The Apologetics Podcast.

In this episode’s installment of Raiders of Church History, the dynamic duo throws a pig into combat against shards from Peter’s skeleton. Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones quickly recognize that the pig brings victory either way. If the pig survives the apostle’s bones, the pig is the victor and, if the pig dies, everyone gets bacon. Also, Garrick and Timothy learn about “tantony pigs,” and there should definitely be a British folk punk band named “Täntöny Pïg.”

Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy.

Garrick Bailey is lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. Garrick was born in the frozen lands of Wisconsin but spent most of his life as a Texan. Before coming to Substance, he served as the director of adult discipleship and home groups at The Village Church. He and his wife Bethany have three children.

Eruption (song by Van Halen, 1978)

In Church as It Is in Heaven (book by Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, 2023)

Redemptive Kingdom Diversity (book by Jarvis Williams, 2021)

Your House (song by Sojourn Music, 2021)

The Apologetics Podcast

Urban Ministry Podcast

Theme music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).