Join us on this episode of Defense Unicorns Podcast as we are joined by Kurt Sanger, retired Marine and former Deputy Staff Judge Advocate at US Cyber Command. Kurt shares his journey from growing up in New York City to studying at Holy Cross and Cardozo Law School, where his interest in the Marine Corps began. He reflects on his early roles in military justice and his transition into cyber operations law, providing candid insights into the challenges and motivations that shaped his path.

In this episode, Kurt discusses the evolution of cyber partnerships and the critical role of trust and collaboration within the Five Eyes community. He sheds light on the complexities of legal counsel in military operations, emphasizing the importance of clear communication and the broad responsibilities of military attorneys. Through key events like the ISIS conflict and the Sony breach, Kurt illustrates the rapid shift from theory to practice in cyber operations.

We also delve into the challenges of great power competition, the debate over the US Cyber Command’s role, and the essential collaboration between technologists and lawyers in shaping cyber policy. Kurt offers a thought-provoking perspective on how emerging technologies and international relations could shape the future of conflict.

--

Key Quote:

“All these organizations have missions and those missions take up all the bandwidth that they have, all the people and all the assets that they have to carry out as it is. And competing in cyberspace is most likely never going to be the priority of an organization that has a kinetic mission.”

-Kurt Sanger

--

Time Stamps:

(00:46) Kurt Sanger's Background and Career Path

(04:58) Transition to Cyber Law and Operations

(07:08) Challenges and Evolution in Cyber Operations

(09:23) Legal and Ethical Considerations in Cyber Operations

(26:47) Discussion on Cyber Force and Organizational Structure

(46:33) The Future of Cyber Conflict and Hope

--

Links:

Connect with Kurt

Connect with Rebecca

Law of the Horse, What Cyber Law Might Teach

Code is Law

The Nightingale's Song

Beats So Lonely