Episodes

  • Unpacking Influence: China's Impact on US Strategy in the Middle East

    Unpacking Influence: China's Impact on US Strategy in the Middle East
    Jun 17 2024
    In this episode of China-MENA, titled "China's Challenging Role in US Policy in MENA," join our host Jonathan Fulton featuring Dana Stroul, director of research and senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, as they explore China's evolving role and its impact on US policy in the Middle East and North Africa. This episode delves into global partnerships like the US-UAE-G42-Microsoft collaboration, the strategic significance of 5G technology and cloud computing, and the economic factors supporting Iran. Dana also discusses the China-Arab States Cooperation Forum and recent geopolitical events.


    Join us for an insightful discussion on the future of US and allied strategies in the region.


    Takeaways
    • US vs. China in Regional Influence
    • Importance of International Order
    • US Strategic Partnerships
    • China’s Regional Impact

    Quotes

    "China, as the sole competitor shaping the global order, inspires us to uphold equity, cooperation, and shared prosperity." - Dana Stroul

    “The importance of the Rules-Based International Order lies in preventing unilateral changes or use of force to alter recognized boundaries" - Dana Stroul


    Featured in the Episode

    Dana Stroul
    Research Director, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
    Guest LinkedIn: Dana Stroul | LinkedIn

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Assistant Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton


    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    03:51 - Navigating Biden's China Challenge in the Middle East
    08:46 - Safeguarding Strategic Partnerships Amidst China's Rise
    11:41 - Exploring China's Economic Development
    15:00 - Contrasting US and China Infrastructure Support
    20:19 - Assessing China's Trade Influence
    22:23 - Impact of the International Order on Gulf Economies
    24:30 - Insights from the China-Arab States Cooperation Forum
    29:18 - China's Prioritization of its Immediate Periphery
    34:04 - Cooperation and Countering Iran's Influence
    38:19 - Iran's Behavior Changes and China's Role39:51 - Evading Sanctions: Iran, Russia, and China
    42:22 - Outro
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    43 mins
  • From the Red Sea to the Indo-Pacific: Expanding Cooperation Between the Gulf and Asia

    From the Red Sea to the Indo-Pacific: Expanding Cooperation Between the Gulf and Asia
    Jun 6 2024
    In this episode of China-MENA, titled “From the Red Sea to the Indo-Pacific: Expanding Cooperation Between the Gulf and Asia," host Jonathan Fulton engages in a compelling conversation with Dr. Hasan Alhasan, a senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies. They discuss China's role in Saudi Arabia's energy sectors, the impact of Indian and Chinese diasporas in the UAE, and India's naval presence in the Gulf. Dr. Alhasan also explores the Gulf States' views on the Indo-Pacific, defense and geoeconomic priorities, and the influence of the US, China, and India on Gulf alliances.


    Join us to understand how Gulf-Asia cooperation addresses future challenges and opportunities, from the Red Sea to the Indo-Pacific and beyond.


    Takeaways
    • Chinese Involvement in the Gulf
    • Regional Geopolitical Tensions
    • Indo-Pacific and Global Power Dynamics

    Quotes

    “'A realm where defense and geoeconomics distinctively part ways, shaping unique alliances and rivalries.” - Dr. Hasan Alhasan

    “The Gulf States perceive the varied and vibrant Indo-Pacific through the distinct lens of their own interests, seizing each opportunity uniquely.” - Dr. Hasan Alhasan


    Featured in the Episode

    Dr. Hasan Alhasan
    Senior Fellow for Middle East Policy at the IISS
    Guest LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hasan-t-alhasan
    Guest Website: Dr Hasan Alhasan

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Assistant Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton


    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    01:53 - Exploring Gulf-Asia Economic Ties.
    04:07 - Gulf States' Quest for Global Indispensability.
    07:41 - Saudi Arabia's Drive for Economic Influence.
    11:48 - India's Leadership in the Global South.
    14:49 - Gulf States' Strategic Engagements with China, India.
    18:28 - India's Naval Strategy and Evacuations.23:02 - Gulf States' Distanced Relationship with Asia.
    27:11 - Regional Competition and Strategic Shifts.
    31:34- India Expands Indo-Pacific Framework.
    35:43 - Assessing Indo-Pacific's Impact on Gulf Security.
    40:43 - Geoeconomics and Alliance Dynamics.
    43:43 - Gulf States Prefer US AI, Diverse Partnerships.
    45:58 - Outro

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    46 mins
  • The View from New Delhi: Can IMEC rival China’s Belt and Road?

    The View from New Delhi: Can IMEC rival China’s Belt and Road?
    May 14 2024
    In this episode of China-MENA titled “The View from New Delhi: Can IMEC rival China’s Belt and Road?”, our host Jonathan Fulton and guests Ambassador Navdeep Suri and expert Kabir Taneja explore the India, Middle East, Europe Economic Corridor (IMEC) and its ties to China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). We unravel India's significant strategic interests in the Middle East and how these regions perceive India's expanded role in driving economic prosperity and enhancing regional security. Join us for an enlightening conversation that bridges continents and cultures on the China MENA podcast.



    Takeaways
    • India, Middle East, Europe Economic Corridor (IMEC)
    • India's Strategic Interests in the Middle East
    • Regional Dynamics and Diplomatic Engagements



    Quotes

    “IMEC propels us towards future-proof economies, blending technology and energy integration.” - Navdeep Suri

    "The geopolitical dynamics of the Middle East offer both a landscape of opportunities and a complex set of challenges for India."- Kabir Taneja



    Featured in the Episode

    Navdeep Suri
    Former Ambassador of India to UAE & Egypt, High Commissioner to Australia
    Guest LinkedIn: https://in.linkedin.com/in/navdeep-suri-2930452b
    Guest Website: Navdeep Suri

    Kabir Taneja
    Fellow Strategic Studies Program, Observer Research Foundation
    Guest LinkedIn: https://in.linkedin.com/in/kabirtaneja

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Assistant Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton



    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    01:39 - Geopolitical and Geoeconomic Considerations
    03:16 - Challenges and Ongoing Interest
    07:17 - IMEC's Focus on Technology in Transportation
    11:28 - Economic Growth in Gulf Linked to India
    14:11 - Growing Strategic Relationships in UAE, Saudi Arabia
    17:55 - Exploring Potential Funding Sources
    19:11 - Positive Momentum in the Region
    25:12 - India's Role in Global Supply Chains
    29:51 - Risk Distribution and US-China Contest
    31:11 - Outro
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    32 mins
  • China vs. IMEC: the Minilateral Movement in the Middle East

    China vs. IMEC: the Minilateral Movement in the Middle East
    Apr 17 2024
    In this episode, China vs the IMEC Corridor in the Middle East, Dr. Jean-Loup Samaan from the Middle East Institute of the National University of Singapore joins to discuss minilateral initiatives' impacts in the region. Explore the ongoing significance of the International Maritime Exercise (IMEC), Israel's post-Gaza war role, and complexities of regional dynamics. Unpack France's strategic trilateral partnership with the UAE and India to navigate tensions with China. Join us for a deep dive into these shifts, evaluating their implications on alliances and power balance in the Middle East on China-Mena.


    Takeaways:
    • International Maritime Exercise Initiative (IMEC) and Geopolitical Context
    • France's Strategic Involvement in IMEC
    • Uncertainties Surrounding IMEC


    Quotes

    "The benefit of mini laterals is creating new discussion mechanisms among countries, crucial in regions like the Middle East lacking strong security frameworks."-Jean-Loup Samaan

    “The introduction of new methods brings hope and progress in the absence of a strong security structure.."-Jean-Loup Samaan


    Featured in the Episode

    Dr. Jean-Loup Samaan
    Linkedin: https://sg.linkedin.com/in/jean-loup-samaan-512a782
    Website: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/expert/jean-loup-samaan/

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Associate Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton


    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    00:23 - Exploring Middle East Mini Laterals
    05:41 - Analyzing the US-led I2U2 Initiative
    06:58 - Middle Eastern Caution Towards a New Quad
    11:28 - Research Challenges in a Changing Middle East
    15:04 - Jordan's Vital Role in Regional Stability
    18:37 - Unpacking China's Regional Influence
    23:35 - Shifting Foreign Policies Amid US-China Competition
    26:31 - Innovations in Security via Mini Laterals
    30:08 - Insights on Middle Eastern Politics and China's Responses
    35:28 - UAE and India: Infrastructural Investments and Rebranding
    38:27 - Issues with IMEC Format and Financing Concerns
    40:24 - Uncertainties Surrounding Israel's Role
    43:12 - Outro
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    44 mins
  • The Political Thought of Xi Jinping and its Impact on MENA

    The Political Thought of Xi Jinping and its Impact on MENA
    Apr 8 2024
    Join us on China-Mena as we delve into Xi Jinping's political philosophy and its effects on the Middle East and North Africa. Discover Xi's global vision, autocratic alliances, and conflicts with leaders like India's Modi. With expert insights from Steve Zhang, we'll unravel Xi Jinping Thought, explore the Belt and Road Initiative, and China's diplomatic strategies. Delve into power dynamics, internal party debates, and Xi Jinping's quest for superpower status, exploring its impact on the MENA region.

    Takeaways:
    • Xi Jinping's Vision versus Other Global South Leaders
    • China's Redefinition of International Order
    • The Ideology of Xi Jinping Thought
    • Global Diplomacy and Foreign Policy under Xi Jinping
    • Belt and Road Initiative and Global South Relations

    Quotes

    "Let's aim to radiate beauty, not just for ourselves but for the Global South and the world. - Steve Tsang

    "Embrace and uphold Xi's leadership and political thought, fostering unity and determination, even in discomfort." - Steve Tsang


    Featured in the Episode

    Steve Tsang
    Director of the SOAS China Institute
    Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-tsang-3b937012/
    Website: https://www.soas.ac.uk/about/steve-tsang

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Associate Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton

    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    04:17 - China's political evolution under Mao and beyond.
    09:16 - Evolving Chinese economic system: state vs private.
    12:19 - Xi Jinping requires widespread support for his ideology.
    14:39 - Xi Jinping's vision: unity, control, national rejuvenation.
    21:32 - Xi Jinping aims to reshape global power dynamics.
    24:07 - China leading democratization of international order, global South.
    29:58 - Overview of China's global engagement and state-centric approach.
    34:03 - Global South: diverse, India-China tension, leadership struggle.
    39:15 - Navigating Soft Power and Wolf Warrior Diplomacy Under Xi Jinping
    44:58 - Steering China's Assertive Stance and Western Relations
    49:10 - Outro
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    48 mins
  • China's Law of the Sea in the Middle East

    China's Law of the Sea in the Middle East
    Mar 6 2024
    Join us as we dive deep into China's maritime dynamics with Isaac B. Kardon, a top expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Isaac's expertise in maritime disputes, global port development, and PLA activities sheds light on China's evolving role in shaping international waters.Discover Isaac's groundbreaking book on China's maritime strategies and delve into his research on China's impact beyond its shores. Uncover China's ambitions in global waters, from deep-sea mining to infrastructure development with dual implications.

    Tune in for an engaging discussion on China's maritime might and its implications for the global order.

    Takeaways:
    • China's Maritime Expansion
    • Global Maritime Strategy
    • Maritime Capabilities and International Maritime Order
    • Naval Presence in the Middle East
    • Commercial Ports and Industrial Parks
    • Geopolitical Implications
    Quotes

    "The power differentials have become significantly important. It has made your ability to resort to international law as a regional actor less effective and more diluted." - Isaac B. Kardon

    "China is heavily invested in transportation infrastructure due to its economic priorities as the world's largest trading nation."-Isaac B. Kardon

    Featured in the Episode

    Isaac B. Kardon
    Senior Fellow For China Studies At The Carnegie Endowment For International Peace
    Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isaac-b-kardon-7ba90416/
    Website: https://www.isaacbkardon.com/

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Associate Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton

    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction

    07:08 - Disrupting Norms: China's Impact on the International Maritime Order
    11:17 - Probing Regional Responses to China's
    13:26 - Delving into China's Emphasis on Sovereignty Concerns
    18:42 - Shifting Tides: Increasing PLA Deployments and Global Dynamics
    20:14 - Navigating Challenges: China's Maritime Interests and Complexities
    24:58 - The Precarious Balance: China's Posture Changes and Potential Conflicts
    28:05 - Strategic Stronghold: Djibouti's Significance in Chinese Diplomacy
    30:25 - Bridging the Divide: Chinese Perspectives on Overseas Actions
    34:56 - Anticipating Support: Political and Security Pathways for China
    39:50 - Economic Priorities: Balancing Development and Security in China
    44:05 - Strategic Insights: Evaluating Military Missions and Facilities
    45:27 - Tactical Transactions: Chinese Military Utilization of Commercial Spaces
    47:49 - Outro
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    48 mins
  • Middle East Instability: A Chinese Perspective to the Latest Flashpoint

    Middle East Instability: A Chinese Perspective to the Latest Flashpoint
    Feb 20 2024
    Welcome back to the China-Mena podcast! In today's episode, titled "Middle East Instability: A Chinese Perspective," our host Jonathan Fulton and guest Chuchu Zhang explore China's evolving role in the region. They discuss recent events, including the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and China's growing presence, and how these shape China's approach to the Middle East. Gain valuable insights into the complex geopolitical landscape and global power dynamics. Get ready for a thought-provoking discussion!

    Takeaways
    • Chinese View of Palestinian-Israeli Conflict
    • Testing US Hegemony in the Middle East
    • Overlapping Interests with the United States
    • Middle Eastern Actors' Diversification of Partnerships
    • Concerns About Regional Stability and Conflict
    Quotes

    "The reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran reminds us that sectarian confrontation in the region is not inevitable, transcending the need to highlight China's greatness." - Chuchu Zhang

    "There are common interests promoting peace, but it's not a comprehensive solution to all problems. Yet, there is another perspective on promoting peace through development." - Chuchu Zhang

    Featured in the Episode

    Chuchu Zhang
    Associate Professor of International Relations in the School of International Relations and Public Affairs at Fudan University

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Associate Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton

    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    00:26 - Analyzing China's Role in the Middle East - Insights from an Expert
    04:28 - China's Collaboration in Belt and Road Development
    08:38 - Exploring China's Growing Involvement in Middle Eastern Affairs
    12:44 - Spotlight on Current Middle East-China Relations
    16:01 - The Rising Importance of the Middle East
    18:42 - Examining US-Israel Goals, China's Concerns, and Global Impact
    20:46 - Chinese Leaders' Perspectives on a US-Centered Middle East
    24:07 - Unpacking China's Presence in the Middle East and Its Implications
    27:44 - Proxy Warfare, Non-State Actors, and China's Dilemma Summarized
    30:57 - Major Powers' Engagement with Armed Groups
    35:26 - China's Preference for Bilateral Relations in the Middle East
    39:58 - Debating the Interpretation of China's Regional Cooperation Proposal
    41:19 - Seeking Flexibility: China's and Middle East's Mutual Goal
    44:25 - Outro
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    45 mins
  • Domestic Drivers of China's Foreign Policy in MENA

    Domestic Drivers of China's Foreign Policy in MENA
    Feb 7 2024
    Welcome to the China-Mena podcast, where we explore China's foreign policy in the Middle East and North Africa. In this episode, host Jonathan Fulton and guest Kerry Brown discuss the domestic drivers shaping China's international engagements. They unravel the complexities of China's internal landscape, including the middle class aspirations and the impact of Xi Jinping's leadership. They also analyze China's growing influence in the Middle East, shedding light on its diplomatic decision-making and potential implications for the region. Join us for a thought-provoking exploration of China's foreign policy strategy and domestic underpinnings.

    Takeaways
    • China's Domestic Drivers of Foreign Policy in MENA
    • China's Core Interests and Soft Power Projection in MENA
    • China's Global Role and Soft Power Challenges
    • China's Influence in the Middle East and Domestic Influences on Foreign Policy
    Quotes

    "It's strange how China tries to change public opinion while facing an image problem. People love their cuisine and kung fu, but the political system makes it challenging for them to win hearts."- Kerry Brown"

    Understanding China is complex, but it's crucial to find a balanced perspective in Western discourse."- Kerry Brown

    Featured in the Episode
    Kerry Brown
    Professor of Chinese Studies, and Director,Lau China Institute, King's College, London
    Linkedin: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/kerrybrown
    Website: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/kerry-brown

    Jonathan Fulton
    Nonresident Senior Fellow for Middle East Programs at the Atlantic Council. Associate Professor of Political Science at Zayed University in Abu Dhabi
    https://ae.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-fulton-2627414b
    https://twitter.com/jonathandfulton

    Chapters
    00:00 - Introduction
    04:47 - Concerns about leadership future raised by Premier's performance
    08:23 - China's passive stance in world affairs
    11:20 - Impact of changes in US leadership on China's strategy
    15:22 - Reshuffling of China's internal priorities during the Trump presidency
    18:26 - Chinese middle class's interest in international relations
    21:05 - Summary of Evan Osnos' article on Chinese concerns
    25:31 - Intrigue within the party and navigating power dynamics
    27:35 - China's core interests defined as stability with internal link
    31:51 - China's focus on regional stability and development
    36:36 - China's dominance reshaping the world with little commonality
    39:45 - Comparison of envy towards South Korean culture and China
    43:10 - China's crucial role in the Middle East
    45:27 - Taiwan's Unresolved Status: A Ticking Time Bomb
    46:21 - Conclusion
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    47 mins