Ka mua, ka muri. To walk into the future facing backwards. What exactly does that mean? If you let your imagination explore that idea for a second you might start to get an idea. How do we, specifically pākehā New Zealanders, move into the future with an eye on our history, personal, national, religious etc, to help guide our actions. What implications does this have for how we live?

Join Petra Bagust in this episode as she explores the whakatauki of ka mua, ka muri. Petra's first guest is Dr Alistair Reese. Alistair gave the dawn service kauhau/sermon at Waitangi Day 2024 and has a PhD in Theology titled 'Reconciliation and the Quest for Pākehā Identity in Aotearoa New Zealand'. He has a new book out, all about the history of the relationship between Māori and Pākehā (with a specific focus on the church) called He Tatau Pounamu. You can buy a copy here.

Petra is also joined by Elliot Collins. Artist, teacher and Dr (another one!), Petra wanted to talk to her friend Elliot to find out what it means to him to live as a treaty partner in day to day life.

Sacred Texts:

• Clip from Dr Alistair Reese's kauhau/sermon delivered during the dawn service at Waitangi 2024

Music:

• Innerspace by The Apples in Stereo (played at end of Alistair's interview)
• Treaty by Moana and the Tribe
• music for indigo by Adrianne Lenker (played during the candle segment)
• Pepeha by Six60
• Frolic by Jake Xerxes Fussell (played at the end of Elliot's interview)
• Start Somewhere by Courtney Barnett (played to end the episode)